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I have no truck with any organised religion but it concerns me that a lot of posts on here tend to involve slagging off religious people.

If humans are pattern seeking, biological creatures with energy saving tendencies, geo-specific religions are explicable, to some, when it comes to providing answers to the big questions. The fact they are used as tools of manipulation on the less intellectually robust, in the absence of empirical evidence, by articulate, confident types make sense.
If atheists and agnostics were not also exploitable in such ways, would more speak out against war on the children of strangers, I wonder? Are such wars not also created by articulate, confident types manipulating the pattern seeking nature of humans in the absence of empirical evidence?

I can only speak for myself and I believe that that we will never have freedom from ourselves, as a species, until we stop judging the behaviour of others, and instead concentrate on the potential of our own humanity.

Sawney_Mor 4 Jan 8
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We can not stop judging others, is in human gene to do it, in cultures, in schools, in families.... You are judging those to judge, sometimes without knowing it. Some are more aware of it and try to understand and do something (evolution), and others simply doesn't care. Its their fault? I do not thing so. Its nobody's fault. Its not religious people fault that they are religious, its not a criminal fault that kill. Everything that happens in this world is just natural. every little thing is a reaction of a huge history that has accumulated for centuries. We can imagine a perfect world, a better world, a decent world. But evolution of our brain and moral needs time, needs more wingbeats.

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I like your post.
However, social evaluation (judgement) will be a part of us as long as we remain a social species. Having a position against judging human behavior is in fact a judgement of human behavior.

It is a difficult problem. We are rather easily lead and not always with the best of plans or intent.

Many systems have been created and many have been touted and imposed on those not yet prepared to do it themselves.

I guess I used the word 'judging' because the old guide book named a chapter after it and because the 'Judge not, that ye be not judged' mantra often appears overlooked by some religious types. I get the semantic argument and judging doesn't necessarily imply that we don't understand the other person. On reflection I'd have worded it in a way that asked about the way we draw and critique our own conclusions, rather than bring judging in to it at all. I wholly agree that we're easily led, I know I am. We see it in all human history, our psychology, cognitive biases and in the fact we tend to gather in large groups, listening to alpha types - Alpha types that never seem to discuss what we are (unless when putting other groups down). I wonder if this suggests that people who do reflect on their fairly predictable creature status are a minority (if so I point the finger at the way we educate children). With the way technology and communication are going, I'm probably looking for someone to reassure me that having faith in humanity isn't any less foolish than having faith in some invisible cloud guy. Thanks for commenting.

@Sawney_Mor I can understand that there is often little reason for optimism. It is encouraging to me that we have survived in much smaller numbers of individuals and levels of knowledge through all sorts of bottlenecks and general calamities. I find it oddly hopeful that much of the troubles we face we have made largely ourselves, at least some of the solutions are not beyond us.

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Having read comments I can see the focus is on the word 'judging' and I did prefix the point with 'I can only speak for myself.' I meant the word in its moral sense, specific to the body of the post. That is, if religion is dependent on predictable aspects of human behaviour, and requires a ringmaster, does the same rule not apply to going to war with people we don't know, simply because social ringleaders - politicians, main stream media and so forth, tell us it's the right thing to do? The loudest voice isn't necessarily right. I just wonder, personally, if clubbing together and slagging people off who think differently from the group is the way forward, when it suits us, or because 'they did it first'. I understand it's an idealistic standpoint and I'm just interested to see what and how people think.
I was watching a video of natives from the Brazilian rainforest the other night. They were shown a newsreel of modern warfare, on a laptop. As a group they couldn't understand it logically, because the desire for revenge that they recognise within themselves would mean that eventually everyone would have to die with such an approach. They looked pretty human to me.
My thoughts tie in with Jack's comments about being a pack animal. But if we know what we are and our leaders don't acknowledge it, often citing religion as an inspiration, I conclude that it must be for their own personal gain. Certainly they all seem to make a lot of money out of us and I don't see any of their kids fighting abroad. Perhaps I'm wrong, happy to be. If we know it and we acknowledge the darker aspects of what it is to be human, can we ever rise above it?

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There is nothing wrong with judging. I don't know why people think there is. Looking at others actions and personality characteristics and judging them is what lets us make decisions moving forward. It protects us from those that wish to manipulate us etc. It's a good way to gauge where you and others stand and what is more likely to happen in certain situations. The only thing I don't judge is a persons personal choice or their preferences........as long as they don't harm others.

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I didn't really understand what you were trying to say... too many big words!!! Lol! But I think you're saying why do we judge those who are religious? I judge the ones and slander the ones who are constantly shoving their religion down my throat because they're literally nothing but assholes and make themselves sound delusional. To me, it's like talking to someone who needs to be in a mental hospital.

I agree 100%!!!

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But they judge us every chance they get. There are laws on the books forbidding a non-believer from holding public office. I could go on and on. If we just shut the f@#k up they think they have a free ride and everything is hunky-dory. It's not. Also this is a site for non-believers to talk about whatever is on our minds and a lot of us have been hurt by religion and we are trying our best to recover, so yes, we might slag off on religious people. You can pick and choose categories and boycott the religious discussions if you wish. No problem for you.

gearl Level 8 Jan 8, 2018
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Well imagine if we decide... we are not going to judge trump. I don't keep an eye on everyone or anyone but I had seen one of my sisters praying to god for money and to kill another sister husband and yes, she voted for trump. And not seen my ordained minister sister do any of that and just be a warmth and kind religious person. I hate to say but I will judge when I see fit... never mind if I get judged. We have a bozo in the white house that makes judging instead of turning the blind eye necessary. And I will judge every life being taken in the streets... Be a vigilante, a policeman, a thug, a husband, a wife, a son, a stranger, a daughter, a homeless, a terrorist, I said every life taken. We are about the last line of defense on the "check and balances" fallacy.

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See my comment about Ljeoma Oluo and her take on us being "pack animals".

It is imperative that we judge the behavior of others especially when that behavior affects other life forms including our own. There are lots of misguided and snake oil salespeople out there. It is said that most of the problems of the world are caused less by evil and more by weakness.

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