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Ultimately I must forgive my opponents for the way that they are. Not because magic man told me to but because the Dilemma of Determinism is a very solid argument based on logic.

The Dilemma of Determinism shows, through logic that REAL free will is impossible. So how we end up in life ultimately does depend on what vagina we pop out of.

The Dilemma of Determinism goes like this: if every single choice we make is determined by something like our past, our environment, genetics or causality, then we don't really have free will. Because our choices are 'determined' by some factor.

Indeterinism is the opposite. Indeterminism is the idea that our choices are completely random. But that doesn't really amount to free will either because randomness defies any type of control. We might as well base our decisions on bets we make in Vegas.

So neither Determinism nor Indeterminsim give you free will. In simple terms, free will must be neither random nor not random in order to exist. Now can you think of a thing that is neither random nor not random?

Now without knowing a whole lot about neuroscience, I suspect that in reality it's probably a little bit of Determinism and a little bit of Indeterminism combined that goes into the functions of our brains. But that is a moot point. Combing the two isn't going to give you free will either. Because you can always break it apart.

That being said, there is a way of thinking about this whole thing that isn't as depressing. And it goes like this:

After reading this, it is likely that you will go about your day and your life for that matter as though you have free will. Now ask the question 'why is free will so important to us?' It's important to us because it's a means to an end. Free will is our way of getting the things we desire.

Now if every decision we made led to an undesirable consequence, it wouldn't really feel like free will to us. We would feel trapped in our misery and free will would lose it's meaning. So maybe that's it. Maybe free will should be seen as an external thing. Maybe it's the measure of how many doors are open to us which allows us to get the things we desire!

Also the belief in free will is itself a product of Determinism and since Determinism shows we aren't responsible for our choices, then it must be that we aren't responsible for believing in free will. As I said before, you will go about your day after reading this as though you have free will.

Now help me out here. Is this anything like Compatablism? Forgive me for not knowing for sure. I just thought of this independently.

MrControversy 7 Jan 8
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I lean towards determinism. Which brings me to other questions. Is this a prison? What is this place? I will still go on living my life as if I have free will, regardless, because I don't have a choice. Having free will or not has no effect on me, or my thoughts really. Also, simply "making a choice" isn't proof of free will either. You have no knowledge or vision of the process behind the action.

Is determinism actually an argument for a God or Satan? If everything is already planned out, then who planned it out?

Sam Harris makes a decent argument on the moral argument. We can still live our lives like we have free will and still lock people up who commit crimes in order to protect others. I don't remember his exact argument though. He's all over YouTube.

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I don't know I wasnt going to respond to this post, but I had no choice. I did it anyway.

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Evolution is neither random or non-random. I'm not going to rehash it, but my explanation is here:[agnostic.com]

My resolution to this free will issue is quite simply: cogito ergo sum. That which is experiencing this thought is an individual entity. Not one of my brain cells alone is capable of a thought. If I am capable of thought I am an entity. Does it matter if the entity having the "thought" is the entire universe or what I think is my body in this moment? If I am the universe having this thought, I was also the universe having the thought that "you" posted. What is the relevance? This, I believe, is the zen philosophy that there is no self or the Hindu belief that we are each/all Brahman living a life under the delusion that we are imperfect.

Regardless, the only way to operate is to assume that whatever being that is having thoughts is capable of free will. So I, as you said, will continue operating under that assumption.

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