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How do astronomers study stellar evolution?

A Short Story:

A certain ruler had two teams of philosophers locked up in ivory towers so that they had never seen growing plants or trees. One day he took them to a forest and proposed this contest. These are trees, he said, I will give each team a day to observe them and and then will ask you if they are changing at all, and if so, how. The first group watched carefully, saw no changes and concluded that either the trees were not changing or they were changing so slowly that no conclusion could be reached from a day’s observation. The second group spent their day in frenzied activity, not only watching for growth, but measuring and counting everything they could about the trees. Then for weeks they studied their statistics and summarized their conclusions as follows:
“The trees resemble one another in many ways and differ mostly in size. We think it likely that the small trees are young and the large ones old because we see some dead big trees but no dead small trees and we observe that sap is flowing upwards in the trees; and many of the big trees are about the same size, whereas the small trees are graded in size; so we suppose that trees are being born all the time, grow relatively rapidly to a certain maximum size and then remain at that size for a long time before they die.” Needless to say, the second group of philosophers won the contest. - J.F. Heard

Astronomers only get a brief snap-shot view of the stars compared to the lifetime of stars.

astrochuck 6 Jan 9
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13 comments

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A cake does not exist until it is made, or created. I have the ingredients and can make a first time cake claiming it did not exist before I made it BUT the materials were already here.

EMC2 Level 8 Jan 11, 2018
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Yes I know and that alone is the point, all STUFF formed as a result of creation itself. Gases mixed and repelled, neutrinos, meuons, quarks, electrons and so on ALL formed utilizing the exact material that evolved from creation itself. Nothing more can be added nor taken away,
I appreciate your steadfast comment that things came later and yes they did, The AIDS virus came later however it comes from the material distributed from creation, All matter , including dark matter, is a result of energy combinations and unions. This is what I say All Atoms are 14 billion years old as are we the human being, My leg and arm ,if buried green, will feed the soil and some animals. This is the recycle of energy I speak of.

EMC2 Level 8 Jan 11, 2018
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E = MC2 This is it do date, The energy in an atom is captured in this equation. All atoms or to go deeper, all quarks and meuons and so on, were created from the energy of creation itself.

EMC2 Level 8 Jan 11, 2018
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Yes the earth is made of 14 billion year old energy and stuff. Atoms were formed after the initial big bang , within seconds of course but the energy that bonded the electrons and such was from the initial bang No way around it, all matter and energy has never lessened or increased since creation itself. We merely take notice at different stages.

EMC2 Level 8 Jan 11, 2018
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All atoms and all energy came at the big bang, the transitions from dead stars to new stars to new gas from an expired gas is all within the circle of life we see as time, 14 billions years is what we have measured to be the age of the stuff we are made of, Einstein did not claim time to be the fourth dimension, however he asserted the space/time entity as the so called or assumed dimension. Membrane theory calls for more than a dozen dimensions. All energy at the time of creation still exists today and may be in another form of recognition but it is the same. It is 14 billion years old, The earth is only 4 billion years old and is made strictly from material created in the universe

EMC2 Level 8 Jan 10, 2018
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Again, without time there is nothing, time is a concept that we humans measure but is it truly there
When we view life from the perspective of analyzing it via the human mind , we always get stuck on measuring an event. We need to stop thinking as humans do and use the energy we all have and that is a timeless mixture of atoms in various congregations.

EMC2 Level 8 Jan 10, 2018
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Well, I completely disagree with you. You are abstracting too much and driving wrong conclusions. First of all, we observe starts since Ancient Greece (probably, even earlier). Galileo Galileo mastered the use of the telescope and more accurate observations could be done since the XVII century. Moreover, differently than your example, stars were not born the same day, nor the same century, nor the same millenium. There is a huge span of time and stars of different sizes and type were born in massive nebulae since the beginning of the universe. They have a life cycle that have been observed (and of course demonstrated), by looking their emissions (electromagnetic emission such as light, infrared, UV, and much much more). Explosions of stars into super novas have been observed, quasar found. Sorry, your example is too simple that cannot hold in this case. And I am not an astronomer, although I am a scientist.

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Astronomers' brief snap-shot view of the stars brings to my mind about Gaia billion-star map mission that is still underway. Gaia will take the brief 5-year snapshot of couple catalogues of mappings which might be completed about 2018 or 2019. The catalogues would be used to compare selected millions of stars' positions to compute how our Milky Way galaxy evolved and find other possible predictions. The 5-year span is quite a brief snap-shot like the one-day brief analysis of trees in the forest by philosophers as narrated above.
I do believe in still productive findings by a brief snap-shot analysis by good scientists. Thank you.

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AS we see the universe it appears that time is the factor. Observing light that existed billions of years ago becomes very special with the tools to break light into different frequencies Observation over time reveals what effect time has on things. Without time there is nothing to measure,
Since our beings are based on time this is the only method we have, Now, presently, we realize that space/time is an entity within itself and we live in this entity.

EMC2 Level 8 Jan 9, 2018
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A new school of thought believes that the entirety of the universe relies solely on electromagnetic principles. "The Electric Universe".

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Tip: Google before you ask...

@astrochuck I apologise, I shall re-read in the correct context. This is something I know a bit about! 🙂

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as I understand it, by use of a gas Mass Spectrometer, that can tell the shift in the material of the star, and thus tell how far along it is its life cycle, as the "color" is of course subjective. The lines arent. some stuff about temperature is also involved. It is mindblowing. It must be amazing to see it at an accelerated rate, if you somehow could. Geologic time would be nothing at that scale.

Yes, you are right.

2

What is the point of this post?
Astronomers work completely differently from how this little tale tries to imply and they have worked for quite a bit longer than a day, allowing lots of intelligent people to come up with testable theories and precise instruments that allow to measure things most people do not even know exist.
Bonus point: they are astronomers and physicists and not philosophers.

Scale it so it is percentage of lifecyle of phenomena observed and we have had less than a day. And as for the use of the word philosopher it is applied in the sense logician. Bacon, Galileo Galilei, Neils Bohr, Heisenberg and Einstein are all considered to be philosophers, to name a few. The terms physicist and philosopher are not mutually exclusive.

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