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I get the sense agnostics/atheists are thought of as amoral nihilists, but I want to believe that's not true. I'm curious what principles, what philosophies, guide you. For me it's naturalism, humanism, egalitarianism/altruism, empiricism. If I had to pick a religion that comes closest to my morality, it would be Taoism - minus the folk mysticism.

Wayfarer 4 Jan 30
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"Be excellent to each other." Bill & Ted

Wise men...I try to live by it daily. Sometimes I even have success at doing so

I respect good intentions. I’m tired of people who think good intentions alone are enough. That’s one thing that led me away from religion.

Awe, being excellent doesn't exclude things beyond good intentions, you can do those things too as part of a complete "be excellent to each other" program!

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Actually it's simple, try to be as emphatic as you can be. Treat someone the way you think he or she would like to be treated. You need at least a little feeling, heart, and compassion, but it makes the life of two people better.

Gert Level 7 Jan 30, 2018
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Read some of my posts. They kind of tell my feelings. But for me I just focus on living as moral and kind as I can. Pay it forward and karma without the religious aspect.

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The book The Art Of Selfishness by David Seabury gave me two principles to live by (1) Never compromise yourself (2) No ego satisfactions. I sometimes state this as; To Thine Own Self (Not Your Ego) Be True, and do it at your own expense.

I do strive to be selfless, and to practice empathy. I don't think I could completely rid myself of ego, however - I do think some amount of ego is deserved by everyone, and is in line with valuing yourself as you do others. It's the over-inflated ego that becomes a problem.

Ego, noun; The self regarded as working independent of causes and conditions. The goal is not to get rid of the ego, but to recognize it for what it is and keep it out of the way. Trying to get rid of it just offers it another place to hide.

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Although not sure of the textbook definition, I'd say humanism. I believe in you. I believe in the goodness of mankind. We've gotten this far because we've learned cooperation makes things happier for everyone.
And while I have removed deities from life, I don't begrudge others who have kept it. If it works for you, more power to you. I've been wrong and ignorant many times, so only fair that you get that right, too.

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I always found nihilism to be too cheerful.

I'm struggling to conceive how that's possible. What can be blacker than black?

@Wayfarer [independent.co.uk]

Cynicism has no bottom, it just gets darker all the way down forever.

@engineer_in_nj haha, Touché. Cynicism though is a real philosophy going back to the ancient Greeks, vs nihilism which is the rejection of all philosophy and universal truth. For cynics the purpose of life was to live in virtue, in agreement with nature. Living in a way that’s natural for themselves and rejecting materialism. I can actually respect that far more than nihilism

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There are lots of inaccurate stereotypes about atheists/agnostics.
I tend to avoid 'isms', and really don't like labels. I realize many people rely on them
for understanding others, and I will use them to simplify things for some.
I'm an atheist. That's it. I don't believe in any gods. I think all religion is evil and want nothing
to do with any of it.
As far as what "guides me", I try to stick with doing unto others as I would have done unto me.
I try to be kind and not harm anyone. I also don't take anyone's crap. The word "welcome" is not tattooed across my forehead.
It's not that complicated.

I share your discomfort with labels - I don't tend to like them much either, and people rarely fit into them neatly. I use them here as loose guidelines. I think my personal philosophy is some combination of those 'isms' but doesn't adhere to any strict definition. I think it's fair to say you believe in justice, and so do I. I think justice and truth are at the core of all of those 'isms'.

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I admit that I am pretty much a nihilist. I see no ultimate future for our human race.
But given that... so what?

  1. It wouldn't be the first time I was wrong -- even about big things.
  2. What benefit is there in behaving negatively about anything or anyone? I suppose the argument could be made that short term selfish gratification could be a goal but my mind doesn't happen to work that way for whatever reason.
  3. I do get a kick out of seeing myself or others succeed. So I enjoy helping various people towards their goals -- short or long term.

I think #3 disqualifies you as a nihilist. That sounds like humanism to me.

I had to look up the definition of nihilism. I admit that I was speaking out of turn because I didn't know for sure.

The first definition I found is:


  1. a : a viewpoint that traditional values and beliefs are unfounded and that existence is senseless and useless
    Nihilism is a condition in which all ultimate values lose their value. —Ronald H. Nash

    b : a doctrine that denies any objective ground of truth and especially of moral truths

  2. a : a doctrine or belief that conditions in the social organization are so bad as to make destruction desirable for its own sake independent of any constructive program or possibility.


My personal perspective tracks to 1 a and 1 b. You're right. I fall well short of 2 a. for whatever that's worth.

@RichCC I think nihilism is actually more extreme and dangerous than people think, and religions are a form of it, in that they reject reality in favor of mysticism and the afterlife. So I hope to find here those that reject it. It’s tempting to fall into it though, it’s something I struggle with.

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Boy, that sounds like a lot of work… I no doubt fall back to what my mother taught me ..back in the days when they could afford to stay home with their kids. Dad was far harsher, but his morals were firm. My grandmother and her sister (my great aunt) are likely ‘the best part of me,’ unconditional love for sure.

I can remember my favorite, if not easiest, Teachers.. Kids watch close, and they measured up to their words with behavior and integrity. Then I’ve those early coworkers, guys 10 years older yet willing, even eager to share the advice they wish they'd been given regarding girlfriends, wives, children and fatherhood..

Where do we get our morals, our gidiance, our sense of justice and integrity..? Out there - it’s everywhere! ...and I’d not have to have read one book or taken any philosophy classes to find it 🙂

Varn Level 8 Jan 30, 2018

I have a deep reverence for wisdom that comes from life and experience. There are many paths that can lead to the same truth. I think you can't discount books and higher learning either - they come from insight and experience too.

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I try to live by three little words. Do no harm. If It would harm me, I try to avoid doing it to others. Sometimes it's not easy to follow, sometimes it's impossible. It's always worth trying though.

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First off, from one Kentuckian to another, welcome!

I'm with you--naturalism, humanism, etc.--but the religion that comes closest to my morality would be Buddhism.

Thank you! Nice to find another Kentuckian here for sure. I've read up a little on Buddhism and took a class on eastern philosophy. I think there's a lot to admire about it, and there's overlap with Taoism with the acceptance of impermanence. I think where I disagree is with the rituals, and with the asceticism.

@Wayfarer The rituals are different everywhere, and as for asceticism--just call me the Whiskey Buddhist. LOL

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