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QUESTION Debunking Christianity

Discussion on free will.

atheist 8 Feb 1
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Before we begin the debunking process, I would like a coherent and detailed description of this so-called god.

Which god?

@AxeElf Throughout history there have probably been billions.

Even Christians can't agree with each other what the definition is of their same god.

@AxeElf Why do you hold those things to be axiomatic? Where does your belief in those axioms come from?

@atheist I went there. Here is the reply to my question.
No posts matching the query: give a clear definition of god for an ignostic..

No posts matching the query: Explain the definition of god to an ignostic.

When I asked, "What is god?" I got more replies than I cared to count.
That many deferent definitions aren't coherent

@AxeElf I think that we accept the statement "two parallel lines never intersect" because it is implied in the definitions of the words that comprise that statement. Our reason tells us that it is true.

It's certainly true that we can make our own choices about some things. However, determining the truth requires the use of reason to make sense of things. And there is a real difference between truth and belief. A person can believe what he wants, but a person can't just make up truth. What is true is true, regardless of what we may want -- or need -- to believe. And when our actions or words affect other people's lives for better or for worse (and fundamentalist religious beliefs very often lead to real and serious harm), we have the responsibility to strive for real truth using our reason, and not just teach people beliefs that some people find comforting or satisfying.

@AxeElf I believe that "two parallel lines never intersect" because (1) this follows from the way most people think about parallel lines and their relation to one another, and (2) because it seems to me that the above statement is something that we know directly or intuitively, like the way we know that 2 + 2 = 4. I disagree that parallel lines exist only as they are defined, and that definitions are a matter of faith. The meanings or definitions of words describe or refer to real things or concepts. You can't "prove" that the definition of the word "rabbit" is true, but it doesn't even make sense to try and prove a rabbit is a rabbit. A rabbit is a real thing.

Another point about faith and belief: faith in God typically involves a belief that is held without having any rational reason for having the belief, or in actual contradiction to rational belief and logic. Some things we do believe without proof, but these are things that can't be proven. You can't prove 2 + 2 = 4. You can't prove that real things do in fact exist. But belief in God is not this sort of thing, or at least it seems so to me (although of course anyone can still believe in anything that makes sense to them,at least in their own way of thinking).

@AxeElf That was a stupid thing I said, and I'm sorry I offended you. Sometimes I say offensive things without intending to. I have a tendency to put my foot in my mouth.

@AxeElf I"m relieved to hear that. Maybe I worry to much. I agree with the second paragraph you wrote.

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If it's not free will, how much would it cost?

godef Level 7 Feb 1, 2018
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Seems to me I have free will. No supernatural agencies exist to predetermine my choices and my choices are the result of my thoughts which my brain determines.

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I decided, all by myself, to make this comment.

No! God made you do it! Or the devil. Or both.

Hang on - does the devil have free will?

Does god?

@ToakReon I don't believe in god or the devil...

@atheist I'd add in my genetic predisposition, abilities, and limitations to that mix but yeah... 🙂

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