Agnostic.com

7 2

To what degree should instincts be reined in?

Would we be better off if people were allowed to give into their instincts without societal judgement? How much of society is dictated by human instinct already? Have we restrained our instincts to our detriment? Or are we just telling ourselves that we have and we are actually far more driven by instinct than we believe?

UpsideDownAgain 7 Dec 11
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

7 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

1

I think we already do give in to our instincts, by and large.

So one of the things you have to understand about the older parts of the brain is: they work, and they all communicate with each other. Our reptilian brains (the brain stem and cerebellum) are pretty reliable, but rigid. Most people walk essentially the same way. The reptilian brain is what is called into service when we feel jealousy, or when we're fucking.

The "negotiator" of our brain sits in the middle of this: the mid-brain, which is responsible for our two most powerful emotions: love, and fear. There's a tiny area in this called the hypothalamus gland, which serves as a kind of thermostat for various things: it controls the autonomic nervous system, which does a whole host of things: controls breathing, sleep, hunger, maternal bonding. Basically, the ANS does the job of keeping you alive and healthy as best it can, through a pair of competing nerve networks-one speeds you up, one slows you down. At the top of this complex structure (more highly differentiated than our cerebral cortex) are the amygdala, which process our emotions, and create an emotional memory. If you've ever gotten the "creeps" in a strange neighborhood, it's your amygdala talking.

Now, it may sound as if these parts of the brain would make us all brutal and primitive. But this is, in fact, not true, many of the most noble aspects of humanity-a mother's love for her children, an appreciation of beauty, the desire to belong to social groups-these all have their roots in these older parts of the brain. Many aspects of culture derive from this area. An interesting fact about the amygdala is that they are very sensitive to testosterone levels-in other words: men live in more fear than women do. I believe this leads to their more "compartmentalized" thinking-objects of thought which arouse fear are simply avoided. The two main "balancing factors" that allow us to not live a life of terror are the desire for happiness and pleasure, and situations that bring about these are also stored by the amygdala (particularly the one on the left).

We perform a near-constant check on the reactions of those around us: "Am I doing OK, are the others displaying disapproval, or hostility?" Non-verbal cues, such as a nod, or a smile, go a long way towards establishing an emotional equilibrium in which we finally have the chance to do what we call "thinking". The cerebral cortices have the unthankful task of "trying to make sense of all of this". We mostly do this through an internal narrative, which is 90% fabrication. We believe what we think we believe because "it makes sense to us."

In other words, the answers to your questions are:

  1. Not particularly relevant, many of the functions of the lower brains are carried out autonomously.
  2. Most of it: language, and the science it has yielded are important exceptions.
  3. We've confused ourselves, because our inner narratives aren't accurate. Because of their power, we're often afraid of our animal natures-they are not, however, intrinsically malicious.
  4. Exactly.

Given this, if you really desire to have your conscious thoughts inform your conscious decisions, you'll have to make those decisions in a peaceful place, where you are free from discomforts. And even then, your feelings will color these thoughts, in ways you cannot control.

Brilliant! I knew you'd hit this one out of the park.

Excellent answer. Thanks.

0

I follow my instincts on the majority of my decisions. I'll take calculated risks on some things, however. I always make sure whatever risks I take that my losses are minimal and that I am able to regroup and recover fairly quickly.

1

It is not so much a question of instincts as of defaults generally, some of which ill serve us in the modern era and a few of which are positively fatal to civil society.

The term "instinct" and "instinctual" tend to carry with them the notion that they are "natural" and therefore inherently beneficial. That association is specious. We are for example heavily prone to confirmation bias and agency inference, which was great when eluding predators on the savanna and really problematic when functioning in a modern, technological, often urban environment. These two mental limitations largely gave us religion, for example, among other things. They are a major impetus to tribalism and toxic discrimination.

So no, we should not give into our "instincts" willy-nilly.

If you're just talking about "gut feelings" then yes and no. Gut feelings still must be constrained by facts and evidence and should be seen as arising out of deep experience and unconscious connections produced by that experience ... not as some kind of mysterious visitation of one's Best Self. Intuitions and hunches are not infallible. They have their place, in the right context, usually in urgent or dangerous situations where you have an opportunity to circle back later when you have more time and/or facts and re-evaluate. You should never "follow your gut" in a vacuum or without question.

Actually, that was one thing on my mind when I was asking the question. I believe it is instinct that drive people to form exclusive groups and shun anyone who doesn't embrace their perspective which is not beneficial to anyone, really. So when is instinct beneficial, when isn't it, and how do we deal with the conflicts that arise when they aren't?

@Meili Instinct, like everything else, has to be evaluated on a case by case basis. It's just one of several potential inputs to a decision. I think the main thing is don't think of intuition as some mysterious mojo that has to be either 100% accepted or ignored, it is just a combination of biological drives, mental and emotional defaults, and both conscious and unconscious thinking around past experience. I think it's tremendously helpful to understand things like confirmation bias and agency inference as evolved responses via natural selection to a milieu that we largely no longer live in. This helps us to give proper weight to it. If you're in a dark alley in a bad neighborhood it is generally far more useful than when you are in a break room at work.

Conflict resolution is the same regardless of the source of the conflict. Kindness where earned, respect where due, a gentle approach, and also recognizing when people don't want to be confused with facts. You just aren't going to win all (or even most) arguments, whether they are civil or red-faced or anything in between, and humility doesn't demand that you have to. So the goal is not to maximize your "wins" but to change hearts and minds where they are ready and willing to be changed, and to do so via sound arguments grounded in reality and available evidence.

2

When l have ignored my gut feeling, it has most often turned out badly.

1

Instincts should be reined in when one deems them disadvantageous ideally. I believe we would be better off if we could arrange our lives such that instinct is allowed mostly free reign without judgement yes. But thats very difficult while living in modern society.

Hunter gatherers generally seem much happier, freer, satisfied to be self sufficient. Their hut gets blown down by a storm they laugh and everyone pitches in to build a new one, who cares?

In regard to your last two questions, it's not a binary matter. Both apply. We have restrained our instincts too much and yet we are fooling ourselves into thinking we can escape them. Particularly among puritanical societies, our sexual instincts have been hampered, rerouted and perverted against reality. The resulting societal blueballs seems to drive a lot of militaristic and money/power grubbing dick measuring contests and fuel a lot of our tribalistic animus.

But we're still more driven by instinct than we realize or admit generally. The only people who seem to know this and use it to their advantage are sociologists who informed our advertising and marketing, and the few politicians who are actively playing chess instead of checkers, although its hard to think of a conservative smart enough to give that much credit to for now.

Upvoted for "societal blueballs" and "dick measuring contests"

Good thoughts. I think I'm still trying to throw off the religious training of all natural human drives are bad and we are supposed to be above those things. Makes for sexually frustrated people and even sometimes people who aren't quite sure whether they should even enjoy eating.

1

Depends on how you define instinct, but since I am happy to accept genetic determinism, that is what I will call instinct and I will go with my own usage, to say. We are sailing ships. Instinct is the wind, emotion the sail and reason the rudder. Loose any one of the first two and you are a passive lump which goes no where until you starve, loose the last and you are either wrecked, (crime) or lost (religion).

Love the analogy! Interesting that you differentiate instinct from emotion. I've been under the impression that emotion was more a consequence of instinct. Where would you say emotions originate from?

@Meili I don't myself see any difference between instict and emotion, and regard them as the same parts of the whole genetic complex that we obtain for our heritage. (Except perhaps that one is the mechanism and the other the outcome we see to some degree.) Some people do however see them as different, and I have had long pointless arguments with too many people, over the issue of the usages of these words, all arguments about words being pointless to me, since they are just movable tags we put on ideas. Some people however, especially those inclined to fall for tricks like religion, are so lost and trapped in human culture, (I would call them culture victims) that they loose all contact with nature and all taste of objective truth, and they think of human cultural artifacts like words as having their own inherent truth. To avoid such debates therefore I threw them that as a sop in the anology.

@Fernapple Ah, gotcha! Makes sense.

2

My instincts have served me very well these 79 years and I would never give them up.They have kept me safe ,aided in decision making and in general aided me in a very successful life. Three cheers for instincts.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:241755
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.