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Does a REVERSE Pascal's Wager sum up the Agnostic pov?

As usual, I discover that a ' new idea ' of mine has actually been around for years. I would state the Reverse Pascal's Wager in this way....

Since there's no credible evidence of the existence of God, the safer bet is to assume there's no God.

If the is no God, then using my innate morality/altruism is the only sensible way to judge between 'good and bad'. Blindly following any dogma eventually leads to contradictions between the doctrine and what I consider moral.

There is no God? I win!

If there IS a God, then there are 2 possible outcomes to my bet.

1- God wants us to use our natural abilities (which apparently, God gave us) to think critically, come up with logical, moral ideas, according to the best information available, and have the courage to follow through. Not just blindly follow a religion you inherited or makes you feel good or is convenient.

There really is a God like this? I win!

2- God is as vindictive, vain and arbitrarily cruel as most popular religions suggest. Even if you're faithful, you picked the wrong God. BURN! Even if you picked the right God, you picked the wrong sect or denomination. BURN! Even if.... well, you get the idea.

There really is a God like this? Then there was never a way to win.

If this is God, and God is love, what would an eternity with a loving God be like? What would this God's idea of paradise be like? Wouldn't Heaven be worse than Oceania in Orwell's 1984. At least Winston Smith would eventually die.

It also occurs to me that, with this sort of God, Heaven would eventually be emptied of everyone but Himself. Isn't it inevitable that, one by one, the Saved, will accidentally or otherwise, commit some 'thoughtcrime' that gets them cast out? " G'Morning, Mr. Spiggot! "

So,
No God, I win.
A 'good' God exists, I win.
God's an asshole, no one wins. Bet either way, I'm inescapably doomed.

But enough from me. Does this Reverse Pascal's Wager summarize the Agnostic view?
If not, how would you restate it?
Does this summarize your view?

P.S. 'My Alerts' hasn't been working reliably. Any delay in my replies to comments isn't due to lack of interest.

marvintpa 5 Oct 28
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3 comments

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1

'Does a REVERSE Pascal's Wager sum up the Agnostic pov?'

Perhaps.

'As usual, I discover that a ' new idea ' of mine has actually been around for years. I would state the Reverse Pascal's Wager in this way....'

Yes I've found that too.

Since there's no credible evidence of the existence of God, the safer bet is to assume there's no God.

Safer than what? Assuming there is one? Which one? I'd say assume nothing - just listen to god claims & ask yourself 'If this was untrue would there be any reliable means to demonstrate it?' - For many god claims there actually IS.

'If there is no God, then using my innate morality/altruism is the only sensible way to judge between 'good and bad'. Blindly following any dogma eventually leads to contradictions between the doctrine and what I consider moral.'

Perhaps but you generally don't need to prove something isn't real - only that it IS. Can you prove to me there are no mermaids under the sea?

"There is no God? I win!"

Why carry the burden of evidence with a claim like that? - It's the job of the claimant to prove their case not you.

"If there IS a God, then there are 2 possible outcomes to my bet."

Really? OK...

"1- God wants us to use our natural abilities (which apparently, God gave us) to think critically, come up with logical, moral ideas, according to the best information available, and have the courage to follow through. Not just blindly follow a religion you inherited or makes you feel good or is convenient."

Could a claim like this ever be disproved if it were wrong? If not it's worthless.

"There really is a God like this? I win!"

No it has to be something that could be proved to be untrue it it was untrue & this can't be.

"2- God is as vindictive, vain and arbitrarily cruel as most popular religions suggest. Even if you're faithful, you picked the wrong God. BURN! Even if you picked the right God, you picked the wrong sect or denomination. BURN! Even if.... well, you get the idea."

Really?

"There really is a God like this? Then there was never a way to win."

Is there though? How can it be reliably demonstrated?

"If this is God, and God is love, what would an eternity with a loving God be like?"

I have no idea.

"What would this God's idea of paradise be like? Wouldn't Heaven be worse than Oceania in Orwell's 1984. At least Winston Smith would eventually die."

Maybe.

"It also occurs to me that, with this sort of God, Heaven would eventually be emptied of everyone but Himself. Isn't it inevitable that, one by one, the Saved, will accidentally or otherwise, commit some 'thoughtcrime' that gets them cast out? " G'Morning, Mr. Spiggot!"

Maybe.

"So,
No God, I win.
A 'good' God exists, I win.
God's an asshole, no one wins. Bet either way, I'm inescapably doomed."

Perhaps. Who knows? I don't.

"But enough from me. Does this Reverse Pascal's Wager summarize the Agnostic view?
If not, how would you restate it?"

Perhaps but it's as unprovable as Pascal Wager too.

"Does this summarize your view?"

No I always leave the claimant to justify their statements & ask whether there's any way their claims could be disproved if they were wrong. i.e. Keep the burden of evidence FIRMLY on the shoulders of the claimant NOT the skeptic.

"P.S. 'My Alerts' hasn't been working reliably. Any delay in my replies to comments isn't due to lack of interest."

OK

Paul Level 5 Nov 12, 2017
1

Because Pascal's Wager doesn't work when run forward, what makes you think it is any more valid run backward?

0

Some of my comments about the possibility of a god: The "YOU" is the collective you.
God Does Not Exist
So you are saying that no matter what you make up, I should consider a possibility? That is called mental illness. If you claim that there is a quarter in a box, there may be or there may no be a quarter, a 50/50 possibility. But you have to prove it. A quarter is a material tangible item. If you claim that there is a mini pink elephant, who is alive and has magical powers in the box, I am 100% certain that it is not true. There is a 0% possibility that your claim is true. YOU MADE IT UP!
Pascal's Wager
Those who believe in a god are illogical to the point of fooling themselves. Believers actually want to know why atheists wouldn't want to "believe" just in case there is a god? Are you are saying that god is too stupid to know that you may not really believe he is there, but you want the safety net just in case? Out of thousands of gods, what if you pick the wrong one? If you pick Jesus, then Allah is going to punish you and if you pick Allah, Jesus is going to punish it. Ganesh the elephant god is going to crush you. So let's say I decide that I can fool god and he won't know that I really don't believe in him. But what if it is the wrong god?

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