Agnostic.com

12 3

Does this happen to any other multilingual people?

I'm bilingual in Spanish and English. Although I learned Spanish first, I'm more comfortable communicating in English. However, I've been speaking Spanish more than usual in the past couple of weeks because my Spanish-speaking aunt is in town and my boss prefers to speak to me in Spanish. Since then, I've noticed that I've been committing a lot of English syntax errors or completely blanking on how I'm going to phrase my next thought in English.

Example:

Spanish phrase: La guitarra de Eduardo

English translation: Eduardo's guitar

Literal, word-for-word English translation (and the type of mistakes I've been making): The guitar of Eduardo

What irks me about making these errors is that I think in English, so I'm not mentally translating any of my thoughts. Has this happened to anyone else? What have you done to counter it?

hammerhead 5 Feb 17
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

12 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

I am bi-lingual in Swahili (first language learned) and English (second language learned) Then I became pretty garrulous in French and after moving to Spain 30 years ago became garrulous in that tongue also, although my Spanish grammar leaves a lot to be desired.
However, I too will sometimes make literal translation mistakes into English, although English is my most used Language.
By the way, if water in Spanish is H dos O, what is holy water?
....... H dios O. 🙂

1

I mean, that example is not technically an error, just...unnecessarily...ceremonial, almost? I can't think of a better word right now. Formal isn't quite right either, but close too. But I can imagine how literal translations could maybe lead to grammatical mistakes.

1

I appreciate all your comments... and reminded me how while in the Navy, you go out on Liberty in Spain and everybody in the ship knows you speak the language and wants to hangout with you for obvious reason but the funny part was the guy who gets drunk and wants to out of sudden practice his one or two years of spanish in a bar with you to impress the other drunk shipmates. It was always funny.

1

You prefer to speak in Englis but Spanish was your first language. It looks to me like your brain is so comfortable with the sintax, grammar and vocabulary of both that those combinations come up easily if you are not making the conscious effort to speak only in one language. It happens to me too. I spoke only Spanish until age 23 and now I can handle both very well, but if I am relaxing with my family, yes, spanglish happens. I am not sure there is a need to avoid it as if it was a shameful thing. I am sure that if you have to make some kind of speech or presentation or have a serious conversation it will not happen. It is only when we let go and are with people that understand both languages that it just jumps out. And with people that understand both, it is perfectly logical and communicates the point quickly and correctly, an it is a ja! ja! moment. That’s all.

1

Switching languages takes a lot of mental energy. It makes your brain tired, especially when doing a lot of translating. Just remember to take breaks and get rest. I think the grammatical "errors" are to be expected. (They are also perfectly acceptable, if not the most common phrases.)

You are right that translating takes effort, but becomes easier as time passes and you are more adept. Many things “degenerate” with age, but language is not one of those. Au contrarie.

0

You should never act as a translator. Take a few seconds to settle and if communicating in English, every thought should be in English. If Speaking Spanish... every thought should be in Spanish. Discipline. There will be times when you be doing both at the same time. But gather your thoughts and do best you can. Once I get going I stay on my lane. I always going to be proud that Spanish is my First Language.

It is interesting. Romans conquered many places in Europe, and it was precisely because people did not have every thought in Latin or every thought in their native language that all the Romance Languages were created. I, for one, renounce to the job of gatekeeper or protector of any language (and I would be highly surprised if I were alone on this one). Peoples mix, borders dissolve (wall or not), communication is the need, sticking to one language is to be left behind. Bilingual and bicultural; that I am, and dividing lines do blurr.

@Rodatheist Having lived in Spain. I loved that the Royal Academy of the Spanish Language every Sunday had a 30 minute program were they introduced the new words to the language with the correct definition, root, use, etc. And if any word was removed, also informed the public. That is Culture and how you keep up with a language. I could bring how the Puerto Ricans in New York invented words in their own... that is not Culture. They used words like "rufo" in spanish, there was no such word... it was taken from the word roof how it sounded and added an o. About your comment of rome and latin... nobody but priests learn latin now days but plenty speak spanish, french, italian, portuguese. Oh the Romance Languages... considered the most beautiful languages in the world. I believe in the Purity and Beauty of languages. There are 3000 to 4000 arab words in use in the spanish language. They were accepted during the Arab occupation in Southern Spain. Some made it all the way to this side of my world like the word "quinque". But it is what culture is about to understand where those words come from instead of just use them and you have no idea. That is how I learned Castilian... not Spanish as my first language.

@GipsyOfNewSpain. The Dictionary of the Royal Academy of the Spanish Language is one of the biggest sources of cultural pride that as a Spanish speaker I could have ever had. Once I contemplated paying the preset equivalent of $400 for the full dictionary in two leather bound volumes (my wallet stopped me). I know and I taste the exquisite full flavor of speaking proper Spanish. I can now also enjoy that same pleasure but with ketchup (English of course). That is what educated people do; I am with you on that one. However, in your comment I can find support for my argument. You say: “nobody but priests learn latin now days but plenty speak spanish, french, italian, portuguese. Oh the Romance Languages... considered the most beautiful languages in the world.” And I say: that is exactly my point: if people speaking Latin would have to have their every thought in Latin, and people speaking the local European languages would have to have their every thought in their language, the Roman Languages would have never been developed; but they did, because languages merge. The same way, all those Arabic words would have never been accepted into Spanish, or all those French words into English, and don’t even get me started about Greek!! So, we can try to hold on to the purity of the language, but in doing so we will be missing the train of the inevitable language transformation and mixing. Your own comment contains a sample of this mixing; and this is it: you and I know that in Spanish we refer to “cultura” as “education”. Tener cultura es ser educado. Ser culto es tener conocimientos. And now when you are using the word “culture” in English you are giving it the meaning it has in Spanish. In English the first generalized meaning of culture is “the customary beliefs, social forms, and material traits of a racial, religious, or social group” (from Merriam-Webster). English speakers would more easily get the exact meaning of what you wanted to say about Puerto Ricans using “rufo” if you refer to it as “education” or lack thereof. When you say “that is not culture” some English speakers scratch their heads. Yes, in Spanish cultura is also the customary behaviors of a group etc. etc., and yes in English culture is enlightening by intellectual training; but not the way you were using it. And I say this not with the intention of denigrating you or your knowledge; you are obviously a very intelligent and educated person. I use it to illustrate the way in which languages melt when their speakers are in proximity. The use of “rufo”, at one lexicographical level, and your use of “culture”, at an obviously very different lexicographical level, are samples of what I argue.

@Rodatheist they brought the word "rufo" to Puerto Rico... we have no idea what they were talking about. It is what they knew. What they used.... we named that "span-english". Many years later americans catched up and made a movie with that name but not about the Puerto Ricans that originated it. It is the anglo assumption... all latinos speak exactly the same language. What can I say? I will protect my language even with its idiosyncrasies. I have to learn that in Spain in 1988 they called personal computers... "ordenadores" not "computadoras"... because they saw it as a continuation of the "word processor" something they called "ordenador de ideas". Spanish is going no where. It is here to stay in our land.

Oh, and I missed one point about what you said earlier: knowing the meaning and origins of the words, as opposed to just using the words without knowing why or what they really mean, is essential. Etimologías griegas y latinas del español was one of my favorite classes. And about Spanglish!! Check this abomination out: voy a parkear mi troka en la marketa para comprar mis groserías. ????
But the problem I see with coming up with proper words in Spanish so that we don’t use the foreign words, with the end goal of using pure Spanish or keeping it pure, is that words are created that nobody use. Qué es más usado: ordenador o computadora, aeroplano o avión, automóvil o coche o carro, espejuelos o gafas o lentes, transatlántico o barco, superventas o best-seller. The first terms are clearly correct, but what about their popularity among users of the language? And finally, granted, mixing of the languages will occur more often among people with less access to education who don’t have command of their own language.

2

Congratulations! Since you are multilingual you have an exceptional brain! I can relate to what you are going through. I was raised in a Spanish speaking home and in a neighborhood where I heard many languages. I learned how to speak French in high school and picked-up Yiddish along the way. Today, I speak both Spanish and English fluently; can get by with my French when in Europe and can curse with the best of them in Spanish and Yiddish. I have never regretted my multilingualism and niether should you!

@hammerhead In Europe is not "amazing" is the normal... you learn your country language and the language of all your neighbors (in case of war), plus you learn English. French is still the diplomatic language of the world I believe. At least it was last century. In the past all diplomats learned and communicated in French. I believe the Court of La Haya still uses French as its language. English is the commercial language. Some languages are easy, some languages are hard.

@GipsyOfNewSpain The Dutch and Norwegians are seriously multilingual - partly because it is state policy not to allow foreign language movies to be dubbed, only sub-titled. As a result, children grow up understanding many languages.
The flip side of this, though, is that almost nobody except Norwegians and Dutch speak those tongues!
Because I was exposed to Norwegian and Afrikaans (an offshoot of Dutch) I have a smattering of those languages, but am better able to communicate in Italian, as it has similarities to Spanish and I often visit my sister who lives in Northern Italy. (However, I am not fluent enough in those three tongues to be able to speak rapidly in them.)

1

Yes I also speak Spanish, not as well as you do, I'm sure. I find that on occasion I have grammatical or syntax errors in English and Spanish. My first language is English. I proof read what I can. In conversation I try to think in only one language, that seems to help.

@hammerhead I found that it helps a lot to immerse myself in the language I'm learning or speaking. I hope it works for you too.

4

In my job, I must obtain information from Spanish-speaking claimants and interpret in English to complete English-only applications and questionnaires. Often- times I have to correct syntax when I catch myself either writing "The guitar of Edward" or all out writing in Spanish accidentally. Going back and forth between two languages on a daily continuum can result in sentence-construction errors unfortunately. :/

It will get better. You will become more adept. Keep going. Be like a fine wine.

1

It proves that you are completely fluent in your ' second' language and even think in it .
I had the same thing with Italian .... At one time I would even dream in it . Overall , I think it's a good thing ...

@hammerhead My grandkids are Polish/English ... And switch back and forth with no effort at all .... In fact they seem to have invented a language of their own . Oh to be young again !

@hammerhead. That’s what I mean.

@MarcIveson In Kenya people would often wonder what language my mates and I were speaking. We would switch effortless between English and Swahili, changing whenever there was a better word to use in the other language, then continue in that tongue until there was again a better word in the other. We never even realised we were switching. However, I haven't used Swahili much in the past 30 years, other than a visit to Kenya 5 years ago, so my full fluency has faded a bit.

3

When I come off of long episodes of speaking and listening in my native language, you can count on my sounding like Yoda once English again I speak. And sometimes, sentences become strangely convoluted when I have to express words and processes in English when I do not know the specific word. In German, I can string a few descriptive words together and make myself understood.
And that stupid rule of not ending a sentence with a preposition. Why not, and who made you the king of grammar?

@hammerhead Although sometimes, I could write the same thing in Spanish in fewer words than in English (I published a bi-lingual weekly for many years)

2

I am still very connected to my native language (Portuguese) and English. What I try to do is keep switching my thought process to the language I am currently using less, so it still feels and flows naturally -- at least more or less so.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:25429
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.