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LINK The Latest: Mississippi 'heartbeat' abortion law signed

And the beat goes on... (all irony intended). The Christian right's Project Blitz is in full swing.

By Elganned8
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1

Jesus. FFS. There's some sick irony in the fact that Christian's own "texts" clearly state that life begins at live-birth (or rather when God breathes breath into you ... which is fucking crazy talk, so let's just roll with live-birth.) I suppose, however, one would actually have to read to have figured this out ... but ...

AUGH!!! I just can't take much more of my fellow Americans' foolery. I live in a country filled with stupid people making other people as stupid as they are and I feel stupid just talking about the stupidity.

1

Idiotic religious fanatic terrorists! The worst of all! How do they think they can tell what we do with our body? Any woman should be able to have an abortion ANYTIME during her pregnancy.

zesty Level 7 Mar 22, 2019
6

Children will be born who will starve and women will die.

Jolanta Level 8 Mar 21, 2019
2

Crazy. Repugs are just crazy.

freeofgod Level 8 Mar 21, 2019
7

Because Mississipi needs more poverty. A pro-suffering state, not pro-life.

May I just ask a question based on your logic? Should it be legal to kill the homeless or anyone, that say, is in the poverty threshold? That would definitely get rid of a lot of suffering. I personally think the heartbeat law is one of the first steps in drawing a boundary. I do think there are valid reasons for abortion. But being poor or not knowing how to control your sexual desires is not one of them.

@Elganned So in cases of rape or known serious medical conditions, you have 4-5 weeks? That's a relief. Yes, birth defects can happen late in pregnancy. However, using the example of being poor or stupid is not a valid reason for abortion. A solid, clear line has to be drawn somewhere on when you can and can't stop that life. This is a good first step.

@bohica1369 It has been said if men gave birth abortion would be a sacrament. I believe that and also believe any abortion laws should only come from women. This is clearly a case of paternalism.
My late partner had, had 2 abortions (after 2 children). The third time she got pregnant she had the child and got sterilized. I asked her why 2 abortions and she said it was the responsibility of the man to take care of birth control. I later realized that in their culture (they were Iranian) marital rape is not considered wrong. I think that is also true in some places here. All children should be wanted children, they should be loved children AND they should have a fair chance of success in life. Barring those things it is not right to bring an unwanted, unloved and one with poor chances of success into this world. Maybe we should also focus on what the child's future life would be like. Finally, with cost benefit analysis the cost of an abortion is low (and safer than pregnancy). People say they don't want their taxes to go for abortion BUT they are willing to pay thousands for pre-natal care, schooling and even programs for rehabilitation to help when they are lacking in basic resources. Our prisons are full of people who probably wish they were never born (and I can think of lots of people in which the world would be a better place if they were not born - one red faced, fat, loudmouth president comes to mind).

@bohica1369 "May I just ask a question based on your logic? Should it be legal to kill the homeless or anyone, that say, is in the poverty threshold?"

Strawman argument:
A way of misrepresenting your opponent's position.
Strawman Fallacy:
Substituting a person’s actual position or argument with a distorted, exaggerated, or misrepresented version of the position of the argument. [logicallyfallacious.com]

Getting back on topic, many if not most women don't realize they're pregnant until around 6 weeks. In case you were not aware, banning abortion will not end abortion. Women will seek unsafe abortions.

From the World Health Organization:
"Ending the silent pandemic of unsafe abortion is an urgent public-health and human-rights imperative. As with other more visible global-health issues, this scourge threatens women throughout the developing world. Every year, about 19–20 million abortions are done by individuals without the requisite skills, or in environments below minimum medical standards, or both. Nearly all unsafe abortions (97%) are in developing countries. An estimated 68 000 women die as a result, and millions more have complications, many permanent. Important causes of death include haemorrhage, infection, and poisoning.

Access to safe abortion improves women’s health, and vice versa, as documented in Romania during the regime of President Nicolae Ceausescu. The availability of modern contraception can reduce but never eliminate the need for abortion. Direct costs of treating abortion complications burden impoverished health care systems, and indirect costs also drain struggling economies.

Access to safe, legal abortion is a fundamental right of women, irrespective of where they live. The underlying causes of morbidity and mortality from unsafe abortion today are not blood loss and infection but, rather, apathy and disdain toward women."

The underlying causes of morbidity and mortality from unsafe abortion today are not blood loss and infection but, rather, apathy and disdain toward women."

Control sexual desires? In case you haven't read the research, abstinence-only education was a fail.

"These data show clearly that abstinence-only education as a state policy is ineffective in preventing teenage pregnancy and may actually be contributing to the high teenage pregnancy rates in the U.S." [ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

"The findings confirm that federal abstinence-only grants have had no overall effect on the country's adolescent birth rates.

"When examining the data state by state, abstinence funding was actually linked to higher adolescent birth rates in those areas that are more politically conservative."

The conclusion is backed by considerable scientific evidence, which has also found that abstinence education has no effect at reducing adolescent pregnancy."
[sciencealert.com]

Pro-birthers encourage teens/women to put their children up for adoption. The U.S. can't even handle the children already in the foster-care system, as it's quite dysfunctional. Orphanages throughout the world are overflowing with unwanted children. Studies show that most of the children living in these institutions and foster care systems become psychologically damaged.

According to the most recent federal data, there are currently more than 400,000 children in foster care in the United States. Most are under the age of 5. For children of all ages, multiple changes in placements (which is common) often lead to severe, long-term behavior and emotional problems.

As many as 70% of placement changes have nothing to do with improving the wellbeing of the children moved.

Disruptions make it difficult for children to form the kind of stable attachments that undergird healthy social and emotional development. This is an especially grave concern for children ages five and under – by far the largest group of children in foster care – given the critical role that strong and stable early life attachments play in healthy human development.

There are an estimated 153 million children worldwide who are orphans (UNICEF). Approximately 80% of these children will end up with severe mental illnesses -- attachment disorders -- caused by a lack of human contact. Abortion was banned in Romania for 2 decades by a dictator. Parents could not afford to take care of more children.

A long-term study found that most of these children who were eventually adopted to loving homes in other countries still had/have severe mental health problems in adulthood, even after intense therapy.

Disabled children can remain in institutionalized care for life. Young adults raised in institutions are 500 times more likely to kill themselves.

Critical research has portrayed orphanages as a breeding ground for psychopathology.

Child violence is widespread in these systems and institutions.

[researchgate.net]

[nytimes.com]

[theconversation.com]

[guttmacher.org]

[tandfonline.com]

@JackPedigo Not to make just a short reply, but I'm busy, you're also arguing in your comment that we should kill all homeless. "They should be loved and have a fair chance at life...poor chances of success." (Paraphrasing your comment). You're right, kids are expensive. I said I agree in cases of rape or disease. But just because they're poor or do stupid things, that doesn't give them the right to murder.

@VictoriaNotes Strawman argument or not, when your logic fails in one area, how can you use it in another? I did not say abstinence only, I said control your desires. Hence the second word in the phrase "birth control". For the banning abortions argument "will not end abortion". You're exactly right. And another Strawman for you, just because you're a fan, let's pull the ban on narcotics, rape, murder. Those bans don't stop them from happening?

@JackPedigo and @VictoriaNotes I respect your opinions, I just don't agree. I think there are other alternatives. Thank you for discussing without name calling, I appreciate the adult conversation.

@bohica1369 You completely miss the point, are putting words in my mouth and attempting to change the subject. Again, strawman behavior. I took the time to post information that you've not taken into consideration, nor have other bro-birthers. We are not prepared to take more unwanted children into the system. I wished people would think before they make radical decisions based on the beliefs and influences of authoritarian religion.

You mentioned in cases of rape or disease, but not women's health? Btw, the Mississippi House and Senate both rejected efforts to allow exceptions for pregnancies caused by rape or incest. [apnews.com]

@VictoriaNotes you tell him sister. If men got pregnant this wouldn't even be a question.

@bohica1369 I have reread my comment and see nothing even close to saying to kill homeless. Sorry, I find this convoluted way of thinking a bit disturbing. I go along with everything Victoria said.

I just wonder how some men would feel if women could dictate what they did with their bodies.

The topic was abortion, not killing homeless.

@VictoriaNotes I have heard another angle to this issue and it is about tax money. Some goofball conservatives claim every abortion is one less tax payer. They never stop to realize the country's population is the highest it has ever been yet all the tax breaks continue to reduce our bottom line.

Still, it amazes me that a, so called, atheist is against abortion.

@bohica1369 OK, let me clarify this for you since you don't seem to get the point I was making. "Because Mississippi needs more poverty."

I said it sarcastically because of the irony. Mississippi is ranked at the bottom for well being of its citizens. In other words, politicians who pretend to be god-fearing and so concerned about a fetus tend to be the very ones who are chipping away at the social safety net and other programs that benefit their citizens and society as a whole.

According to this multivariate analysis by the Organization for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD) which takes into account a plethora of indicators of societal well-being, Mississippi consistently ranks as having the worst quality of life. In fact, states in America with the worst quality of life tend to be religiously and politically conservative. The OECD also found that the least religious states fare better than the more religious on a vast host of measures, including homicide and violent crime rates, poverty rates, obesity and diabetes rates, child abuse rates, educational attainment levels, income levels, unemployment rates, rates of sexually transmitted diseases and teen pregnancy. They (religious/conservative states) also have the highest divorce rates.

*"I said control your desires Hence the second word in the phrase "birth control""

You said nothing about birth control, so if the phrase "control your desires" translates to you as meaning control birth control, I appreciate the clarification. Speaking of controlling birth control:

From the study in the second link: "The appropriate type of sex education that should be taught in U.S. public schools continues to be a major topic of debate, which is motivated by the high teen pregnancy and birth rates in the U.S., compared to other developed countries. Much of this debate has centered on whether abstinence-only versus comprehensive sex education should be taught in public schools. Some argue that sex education that covers safe sexual practices, such as condom use, sends a mixed message to students and promotes sexual activity.

*The central message of these programs is to delay sexual activity until marriage, and under the federal funding regulations [implimented by conservatives] most of these programs cannot include information about contraception or safer-sex practices."

From the CDC -- [cdc.gov] See a pattern here? Mississippi ranks at the top for teen pregnancies. Most of the highest teen pregnancies come from conservative states run by religiously conservative politicians. See map in link.

From the 3rd link I posted:

"What's more, there is no evidence that teaching teenagers truthful and practical information about sexuality, contraception, and abortion, increases the frequency of sexual activity or leads to earlier sexual practices - two moral qualms that many conservative Americans hold.

Health experts largely agree that abstinence-only education should be abandoned in favour of more evidence-based practices, like pregnancy prevention. But some policymakers are choosing not to listen.

Not only has the Trump administration proposed an additional $277 million in abstinence-only education, they recently cut more than $200 million to adolescent pregnancy-prevention programs.

While this may not affect every adolescent American, the current research suggests that these policies could be detrimental to those living in more conservative states.

This study has been published in the American Journal of Public Health."

Mind you, this administration isn't just promoting and funding abstinence, they are promoting abstinence always until you're married.

So, why aren't these so-called concerned politicians and their faithful followers not focused on preventive measures, and, in fact, are doing their damnedest to undermine the effective pregnancy-prevention programs?

It's your party of choice You tell me?

@JackPedigo Yes. It was and still is the strategy of the Roman Catholic Church, as I know you are aware. Few children = fewer converts = fewer tithes. If these anti-abortion protestors were actually concerned for the "sanctity of human life" they wouldn't be anti-contraceptive and against people seeking vasectomies or tubal ligations. Speaks volumes.

"If men got pregnant this wouldn't even be a question."

@freeofgod Likely so. smile003.gif Reiterating what the World Health Organization stated:

"The underlying causes of morbidity and mortality from unsafe abortion today are not blood loss and infection but, rather, apathy and disdain toward women."

@VictoriaNotes I always have to laugh (and cry) when I hear the pope talking abut how we have to deal with climate Change but then say we must not use this issue as a way of addressing population growth. Unfortunately, these people are so enmeshed with their own little world they literally can't see the forest for the individual trees.

@JackPedigo Two words: Job security.

@VictoriaNotes You could also say, sickeningly, more people to victimize. However, their deeds failure to match their words are causing their 'job security' to crash.

@JackPedigo It couldn't come soon enough.

@bohica1369 An abortion is no different than cutting my nails or getting a haircut. Not a big deal at all, properly done.

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It’s painful to think that shithole states like that are actually a part of this country.

6

It's not likely to be upheld when it hits the courts. I don't think any of the "heartbeat" laws have. So far.
However, 45 has been packing the judicial openings with conservatives.
Which is another reason why fuckface McConnell has been so quiet.
He's been getting what he's wanted, so he is willing to look the other way on 45's
antics, for as long as he can get away with it.

I really hope that whomever beats 45 and takes over as President in 2021, immediately starts undoing the damage 45 and the republicans have been doing.
I don't care if it's by executive order or not.

KKGator Level 9 Mar 21, 2019

@Gooniesnvrdie Maybe we'll get lucky and he will drop dead smile001.gif

1

Conception, Heartbeat, Brain Activity, Pain Reception: the metrics for abortion are so arbritrary, it doesn't surprise me that one side wants to push it as close to one end as possible and the other to the other end...

They have no problem with killing in self-defense or killing as many Innocents as possible during wartime.

@Kojaksmom , or letting poor children starve instead of helping out. Just so they can add more money to their pockets.

@Kojaksmom Or in peacetime.

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