@Allamanda Thanks.

@Allamanda So the genetic code gets inserted in our own cells? I don't understand the exact science here. mRNA vaccines, I guess. That is something to learn more about. It sounds like a completely new concept I am unfamiliar with, but not one that could be without serious problems. I say that not educated on potential risks, just my opinion.

Edit 1: Read a very breif explanation. These vaccines may hold tremendous potential for eradication of certain diseases. It will be exciting to watch it progress.

@Allamanda This type of blame shifting being done by the U.S. is very disturbing. I don't agree with an attitude of "determination to lead on global health matters, including the current COVID crisis" and then you fail to fully show up. Or maybe that is because WE are most in need, this time around. I also feel similar disappointment at all nations who didn't show up. It is true this must be a collaborative effort. This is something Bill Gates is absolutely correct in saying ( this is from 2015 video included below). It looks like the U.S. and Europe are really the hardest hit at this stage, by far. Hmm, also just reading an article about ramped up hacking attempts of WHO.

You could start with this, made way back in 2015.

@Allamanda "I am not "absolutely assured of his integrity" any more than with any other human" That's fair. But what do you know about him? Is it just TED talks you've watched? What else? Read any books? Any other ideas? Things you heard that stick out in your mind?

I just read a quote of his where as he talks about the recovery from covid. He makes future predictions about how we will recover. He says "I think schools will reopen". He didn't say "I think schools SHOULD reopen" But he made a future prediction that schools would reopen before the pandemic numbers have been brought down to zero. Should someone who has his "authority" in the matter, and by that I mean being looked to as an authority, be saying such a thing? Over the past three days I have been made aware of a five-year old and pregnant twenty-something who died of this illness. I think opening schools back up before we have zero is grossly irresponsible as the school setting is probably one of the WORST places in terms of how diseases such as cold and flu are spread through a community. I would also think Bill Gates who is an extremely intelligent individual, knowledgeable in both disease spread and in general, very wide range of knowledge, would know this and not speak of such occurrence neutrally. He would make recommendations AGAINST it knowing that sending kids back to school prematurely will be directly responsible for MORE infections and then more deaths, and quite possibly by very large numbers.

@Fernapple I wanted to get back to this. I started watching it. I noticed in the first minutes he mentions we have invested in nuclear deterrents but NOT biodefense. It's easy in that statement, as a viewer to confuse who the "we" he is referring to. I would assume the U.S. since he mentions nuclear defense. Is it true to say we have spent little on biodefense? Maybe he is trying to wrap 2 ideas in one there? I don't know. I don't agree that we have spent little on biodefense, comparatively, yes, but overall, absolutely not.

@Allamanda What data are you looking at? Please give your specific source. You take ONE child who is asymptomatic put the child in the classroom. Have the kid sneeze maybe because of allergies or because a dust piece flies in the nose, you now have entire classroom possibly infected and bringing it home. Or maybe sneezed in the hallway and now multiple classes infected.

@Flowerwall I think that he is just using nuclear defence as an introduction, it has little to do with the main part of the Ted Talk. I think that it is just a hook to hang the main part on, which he probably did not give much thought to.

@Flowerwall Yes it is true that it would seem to be very unwise to reopen schools too soon, but if no vacine is found, which is quite likely, then we could still have low level infections of the virus ten years from now. It would be very costly to have a whole generation with no formal education, probably even more costly in lives than a low level of infection, after some herd immunity is achieved.

@Allamanda "If children are back at school with a scientific consensus as to the advisability, we will be in a phase where other vulnerable sectors are protected from contagion, and there will be tests and/or vaccines etc." That is NOT how it was presented in the article.

Also thanks for this "yes obviously, you are confounding several different ideas here." Which several ideas do you mean? Please clarify and list otherwise your response comes across to me as insulting and derogatory, and that must not be your intention

@Fernapple Please tell me why we are not as capable as China? I would really like to know why.

@Fernapple Whether he uses it as an introduction or not I still would expect it to be factual. He is not a person I can picture " he probably did not give much thought to" is true in ANY circumstance. He is too intelligent. I would still find this as an acceptable excuse for a student giving a speech, but Bill Gates? He is comparing dollar amounts spent that are in excess of all of his own foundation's spending and saying we haven't spent on it? This is CONFUSING. It's misleading.

I am going to say it again. It's not my intention to put down a person who has done a lot of good. I don't have something against the guy. In fact I REALLY ADMIRE people who do good and especially on a massive scale, those are the best accomplishments, but you can't just NOT question either. I may be off-base, and picking apart things I shouldn't, but still it's there and I wonder.

@Flowerwall I do not know, why we are not as capable as China. Except that China is a very authoritarian country, and its people very used to obeying, which in some things can be very good, in other things not. Most of the Asian countries that were very good a stopping the pandemic are very authoritarian, Like South Korea the one exception being Japan, and they are in a bad way just like the US and Europe. But it could be something else. It is also of course possible that the government of China, is just not telling the truth.

@Flowerwall Possibly. Though I do think that the amount spent on nuclear weapons and deterent is certainly greater than that spent on bio-defence, so I don't think that he really has anything to answer.

@Fernapple He may have just misspoken. But what about our expectations from our own government? It makes me VERY ANGRY how we spend all these billions of dollars and yes I mean in excess of all Gates Foundation spending and WHERE is our biodefense? What even IS it? What are our expectations from it? I heard some very dismissive things said about those who criticize the lack of biodefense as though these billions are just supposed to be spent and no expectations placed on a certain level of capability from our federal response. To me I feel Bill Gates is just approving that idea here and I don't like it.

@Fernapple I am getting tired of reading about mistrust of China and are they telling the truth. We trusted China so much for so long EVERYTHING is made in China and NOW we wonder if they are telling the truth? I think there was an attempt in the beginning to stifle the truth there, but beyond that I can't see a reason why. What I do find interesting is how we talk about China's impossible-to- fully- know faults, but fail to focus on our own.

I agree they are more authoritarian and people listen better, so shouldn't we be attempting to model this same behavior? No I don't mean the authoritarian side of it, but giving a positive portrayal of the effectiveness of following directions, self quarantining etc. Also possibly using ideas of fining people who are purposely engaging in behavior that is putting the entire society at risk? No, instead we are encouraging reopening the economy too soon so we can have a huge second wave. It is baffling how we are lead. Our government needs to have a strong, firm leadership that does best for the nation, not giving in to public demand of the day, aka playing politics

I also just read "Chinese officials fume at what they see as Western hypocrisy. They say President Donald Trump and other leaders ignored the brewing pandemic, then began scapegoating China once the virus arrived on their shores" I tend to agree with this. Scapegoats are very useful tools of incompetence.

@Allamanda "no I din't mean to be insulting at all, but I now have to backtrack through this whole thing which was already rather tiresome and is now thoroughly boring." So you didn't mean to be insulting then, but do now? You said I confounded several ideas then repeated back one example. I will assume you exaggerated (for what effect?) or you don't have the self- discipline to overcome your sense of boredom and give me a well-thought-out, proper response as I should be entitled to after being told I confounded several ideas. Responding would be courteous.

@Fernapple Not gotten through it yet. Soon.

@Allamanda I am cranky too. Maybe I am just feeling negatively and questioning of Gates because of this whole situation and I myself am looking for someone to blame, which would indeed make this whole conversation pointless. I hope you feel better soon.

@Fernapple Just came across a talk on societies that use varying societal controls and how the US, which veers toward "loose culture with ambivalence toward measures that erode our autonomy and liberty.", needs to look toward cultures that are more rules based in order effectively combat the virus. This is what I was meaning in the other response I wrote here, the reaction we should be praising and encouraging in our society now to get through this.

"You know, tight societies, like Singapore and Hong Kong, for example, have demonstrated a really effective, quick, swift response. Singapore has had very few deaths. And the United States, the response so far echoes our loose cultural programming. It's been conflicted. It's been unstandardized. It's been uncoordinated. And I think that, you know, this is a cultural issue because loose cultures who have tended to have less threat haven't had the kind of contexts where they've realized the importance of sacrificing liberty and autonomy and freedom for constraint and rules. And we have kind of an ambivalence about tightness in United States in general. And here's where we see that this is a real liability that we do see in our data analyses that loose cultures have had higher spread of the disease, different trajectories than tighter cultures...And I think that we need strong leadership to tell us that this is the appropriate response in this situation. " from cross-cultural psychologist Michele Gelfand, HIDDEN BRAIN
Playing Tight And Loose: How Rules Shape Our Lives

@Allamanda I know this back and forth has gotten very long, but please look at the last reply I sent to Fernapple just above this. I know Bill Gates did not make a recommendation regarding return to school, but if he is to be a leader in this he needs to be STRONG. Give clear meaning and directions. Do not cave in to politics. Don't be lukewarm. Set clear expectations of how we get through and demand our leaders follow it. Don't say "Kids will return to school" in a passive voice. GIVE DIRECTIONS!

@Allamanda I definitely think it speaks about the current strong, authoritative leadership vacuum we are experiencing. When I listen to him speak, for instance in this TED talk posted above and he talks about collaboration, yes, it definitely inspires. This attitude is inline with our national values. He comes across as a leader in this regard. I don't feel 100% trust though, as I think a real leader will prove him or herself by doing (and here I mean leading covid response). Skeptism is warranted at times and the times we are in are uncertain. Since he has the expertise and tools at his disposal, and since he has been an advocate for prevention of this very problem, it would be useful for him to step up as THE authority to give across the board guidance that will help all nations know exactly what best practices are. But the directions need to be given out clearly. Now is not the time to assume the leaders in power will make the best decisions. He should approach it with a sense of urgency. In the article I read he appeared to be not doing this. I am going to continue listening to him as statements and talks come out, I DO hope he is the genuine, effective leader that helps pull the world further away from this current crisis and of course continues the good work he has been involved in for many years. Just don't mind if I question it from time to time, either specific things said or the general stance.

@Allamanda "But, he isn't setting out to be that leader as far as I can see" Then why does he concern himself at all ? If he cares and wants to solve the problem, then DO SO. I don't want a politician. In fact the political end in all of this is something you hate to see. But if someone genuinely cares about public health, it is their life's work, and has the public's attention through constant media input then use it to inspire needed action. That is my thought.