"...The only way to counter this is a massive turnout of Democratic Votes & Voters - blowing them out of office and beginning the claw-back necessary to make sure we never find ourselves in this deep again....."

But we already tried that in 2008 and 2012 and the Dems and the Obama administration failed to do what was needed and guard and strengthen the already-weakened voting system. Even if the Dems do what you say, unless they use their brief time in office to repair and address guarding the sanctity of the voting system once and for all, I don't see much point.

@kmaz …..noooo ...not again..

The people - need to consistently - meaning every damn election for the rest of their lives - vote for candidates (run as candidates or support candidates) from the only - Only party capable of keeping evil in check.

You vote for a president, then maybe again … while allowing him to lose Congress - and the Supreme Court during ‘off years,’ that’s not gonna do it. You must vote for his party up & down the ballot - just as our evil opponents do..

It is taught, because I vaguely remember it.. Our US system requires an ‘OK’ from ‘the house, senate, president’ … and occasionally the supreme court in order to make or fix a law. If a President loses Congress (the house & senate) for having first given the people ‘healhcare for all’ … he’s prettymuch a lame duck.. Sure, he’ll be blamed for everything going wrong on his watch, but there’s little if anything he can do about it.

I’d have loved to have seen Obama take a ‘whistle stop’ rampage across the nation - holding the damn Republicans accountable for shutting down progress! ...but that wasn’t his nature As mentioned, had he a Democratic Congress (both houses) bursting with Democrats - things would be dramatically better at this very moment…

The “Dems” are this nation’s only hope. If they are not consistently supported - no matter what kind or amount of shit’s tossed at them by industrial shit-machines -- the nation will continue to slide faster & faster down ..the shithole. Problem is, the side with the deepest pockets has so skewed the system to their benefit … most people can’t stay the course.

@Varn
As to what is meant by "no, not again" I don't know what that means.

You don't seem to have made much of an effort to address my point, but rather are distracting from it. You appear to disagree with my point that the Obama administration could have and should have done more in its time in office to counter the deep corruption in the voting system, but instead of making clear why you disagree, you go off on some seeming tangent about whom we vote for, and lecturing about the importance of voting and whom to vote for (and perhaps engaging in the unfortunate irony of lecturing about the importance of voting to people who are trying to get through to you that "yes, voting, important, but if the system is corrupt then how is the vote going to be counted accurately?"

As best I can tell, during the eight years of the Obama Administration, more could have been done to address the significant corruption problems within the US voting system. I may be wrong. Maybe the Obama Administration did everything possible and then-some but maybe I'm just not aware. If you want to say that the only reason that the Obama Administration failed to capitalize on its victory in overcoming the already-in-place stacked deck of the corrupt US voting system, and didn't address sufficiently the corruptions in that system.... is that people didn't then vote en masse for a certain party later on, I disagree. It's helpful to have much of Congress with you, but when you win the bullypulpit of the Presidency, it is possible to address issues to a degree even without such support. I may indeed be off in diagnosing what the Obama Administration could have done on this issue, but I think if someone wants to disagree they should address themselves more to the issue.

@kmaz … ‘not again’ meant ... not someone else around here using the false equivalency shtick…

“You don't seem to have made much of an effort to address my point” -- I don’t fit all that well down rabbit holes

Broad questions require in depth answers, and such questions & statements exhibit one’s level of understanding.. If one can’t understand … they’ll get lost quick..

You state: “As best I can tell, during the eight years of the Obama Administration, more could have been done to address the significant corruption problems within the US voting system.” -- That’s why you needed a refresher in the basics. Obama could not control how States carved up their districts. The Supreme Court also gutted the Voting Rights Act in 2013, Obama had no control over that (nor was he allowed by the Republican Senate to replace a Justice). Obama could not control how various secretaries of states counted their ballots, or not.

It’s an often repeated misnomer that any President, including the one in there now, has total control over the ‘united states’ individual voting laws. Our system is complex, therefore those seemingly incapable of understanding it need simple advice. I gave it.

@Varn

Thanks for taking the trouble to write out your response. Mine is as follows:

1. "...@kmaz … ‘not again’ meant ... not someone else around here using the false equivalency shtick…..."
   I'm glad I asked about this. So, I haven't employed any such shtick, nor did you have a proper basis for jumping to the conclusion that in sharply criticizing the Obama Administration and the Democrats I was resorting to it.

2. On the rest of this, your misplaced-at-best condescension is pretty offensive, and if we add it to the fact that you have falsely projected onto me the false equivalency argument, it makes me wonder whether there is any point. However, to take a shot (though it may be naive on my part) at clearing up a thing or two here and putting the conversation back on something resembling a productive rational path:

3. The subverted state of the US voting system amounted to a legitimate emergency before Obama was elected. It was a welcome event that not only did he win, but that he overcame the significant flaws that already existed in the system and won so clearly. It seemed to me a rare instance of someone playing against a stacked deck and American voters doing their homework and reflecting on 8 years of Cheney-Bush, and just blasting through it all including that (AFAIK)
   a) some of them were not allowed to vote who should have been allowed to vote
   b) some of those who voted did not have their votes counted accurately

At that point, while I am sure that he and his Administration and some in Congress made some attempt to address the emergency-level corruption of the voting system on various levels, including the ones you mention, and while I also am doubtful they could have done anything even if they had done everything possible, in my own view, I did not hear enough or see enough from them about this over the 4 years (and then 4 more years). At the least, the bullypulpit of the Presidency could have been used more than it was (as far as I know) to shed light on the situation more than was done, up to and including shedding light on the horrifying Republican tool of removing legitimate voters around the country from their registered status. I'd be happy to learn that I've misjudged what was and was not done during those eight years to address the emergency situation. Your points seem of some interest, though they are not adequate in my view.

There are multiple tools that have been used to undermine the system (including removal from voter registration of legitimate voers, gerrymandering, outright computer hacking of machines, manipulation of social media from outside the country, etc.) and yes, I suppose some small amount of the vote fraud the Republicans keep trying to focus on as the only thing that interests them in the whole topic. Still, did President Obama decry, clearly and repeatedly, the several awful tools for disenfranchisement and undermining of the system... including, explicitly, and loudly and repeatedly, decrying removal of legitimate voters from registration. Any patriotic American should be outraged at this sort of thing.

[addendum, re-reading your response:

you wrote: "...It’s an often repeated misnomer that any President, including the one in there now, has total control over the ‘united states’ individual voting laws. ..."

My response: I've never said or thought such a thing, or anything close to it. What I do think is that a response commensurate with the situation would have reflected an understanding of the urgency of the matter at the time, it probably would have been doomed to failure, but I thought at least a full effort should be made including a bit of shouting from the rooftops, and in my view the response was not quite adequate.]

In the case of my criticism of the Obama Administration on this point, had we not already so obviously been near or at an emergency level on these issues in 2007, and if it were not such a clear basic constitutional issue, and if we were not 13 years along and stuck with a President who has made a personal project of openly destroying what is left of our voting system, I'd be less sharp in my criticisms, but in my view, that is where we were and are.

@Varn

I do still think they should have done a lot more (regardless of the fact that efforts were probably doomed in this area), but I should add: I actually do agree that my criticism of the Obama administration is too harsh. It was written in some haste. I admired some of their efforts at voting rights at the time.

@kmaz I read it, responded, and deleted my response before posting. I stand by my previous thoughts, but intend to move ahead. I’ve an upper echelon political friend I both admire and attempt to learn from. He always moves ahead - never backward. I’m trying

@Varn
"....He always moves ahead - never backward. I’m trying ..."
A lot of us have to make occasional judgment calls to keep in mind not to get bogged down with what we regard as nonsense from others.

You might say that you have not misportrayed what I have said or thought, and I suppose that's possible, but in any event I suggest and request increased focus on the point you want to make about the issue and reduced focus on presenting and critiquing what you claim I think or say or know or supposedly do not know. You obviously have some subject matter expertise and some desire to discuss and I think it's ok if you want to do that in response to me, but I request you keep the focus on the point you want to make about the issue itself and as much as you are able try to stay away from portraying whatever it is you think I've said or haven't said, or thought or haven't thought.

@kmaz You remind me very much of another friend, he has a functioning form of Asperger's Syndrome. We teamed up years ago as we’d be hit from all sides by far-wrong extremists on a powerful online social site. He could not see the larger picture, thus spent hours/ days grinding away at some minutia; I, having spent years acquiring a well-rounded overview, cut through it. We made an interesting if formidable team.

What ‘puzzles you’ is likely ‘your problem.’ The inability to view it from a broader perspective, the same. It’s not a strength, and may inhibit you from figuring out the minutia when confronted by wide spectrum reality. You’re not alone, though. Many from the far-wrong lack the base information necessary to view the misinformation they prefer in a broader perspective. The difference being, they may eventually choose to try it; you may be trapped..

Hi there @Varn

I have to face that my naive attempt to respond to your repeated incivility with a request to stick to issues has failed, and I think overall you've made it quite clear this isn't going to change anytime soon. I will miss learning what I can from your posts, and I hold out some hope you'll soon figure out an ethical way to participate. For now, you'll be on block, I"m not sure for how long.

@kmaz Sadly, and apparently, you are no doubt ..as suspected.

Indeed, for 10-20 years or more it has been a standard tool (among several) in the Republican anti-voting-rights playbook to de-register legitimate voters along with their supposed efforts to find and remove illegitimate voters. This is common knowledge amongst those of us voting-rights-concerned folks not hiding our heads in the sand. Try actually researching the matter. No, visiting right-wing sites that tell you that "the [only] problem" is "voter fraud" does not amount to doing any useful research, at all.

I haven't decided, I may just call it quits on this particular discussion path, but at best this is your last chance with me to respond out of something other than willful ignorance and low-brow attitudinal argumentation. If you respond with further posts along those lines we won't be speaking further for at least awhile.

Thanks