I don’t know that it’s so complicated as that. If I ask you “What’s in this box?” and you say that it’s not a fairy, you have not properly addressed the question. You have allowed your disbelief in fairies to obscure the question. I never said there was a fairy in the box.

There is a box however. We experience reality.

@WilliamFleming Yes it is complicated, but that's about it. In fact I go even further than being discomfort with people using god for the unknown, I find that even terms like "the great mystery", are too specific for me, since they imply that it must have know properties like greatness.

@Fernapple I think I understand what you mean.

Do you think that it is correct to infer that reality must have some sort of basis that is beyond our comprehension?

If there is such basis it would be hard for us humans to not think of that basis as “grand” or awe-filling. But those are just psychological feelings of little significance to understanding.

@WilliamFleming There is certainly a basis which is beyond our comprehension at this time, (The standard model is far from finished or correct in all details.) and it is possible that it can not be resolved by us, since brains evolved to solve the problems of survival on the plains of Africa, simply may not be able to understand the universe. Yet we do not know, it could all be resolved next week by a scientist/philosopher via perhaps the most trivial and basic of discoveries. (Realistically unlikely.)

And of course since understanding, especially final complete understanding seems important to we humans, now at this time, we are bound to think of it as the great mystery, and the god issue, etc.. The big danger however in such terms, is in giving those who would promote religion a hand hold on our collars. It then becomes very easy for them to say. 'You see they are interested in god.' And then to take that as permission to use sceptics own positions as support for their theist views, often by distoring the original meanings completely. That happened to Einstien himself, who made use of the god word a couple of times methaphorically, with no intention to mean diety in any way. Yet just doing that, has made him an icon in some theist quarters, where he is held up as a near saint, and an authority proving even the most extremme forms of theism. Which is certainly something he never intended, would hate, and which sadly buries completely the real valuable meanings he intended.

@Fernapple I like to keep my mind on the immediate question of the basis of reality, or to put it another way, “What the hell does all this mean—GOOD LORD?” As an American I would say that we are faced with a staggering miracle of epic proportions. I suppose that a Brit would say that it is rather puzzling, or something like that.

If in the meanwhile some people want to try explaining away the miracle by proposing a bunch of silly gods and others make a career out of refuting those silly gods, that is their game. I refuse to be distracted from the central miracle of conscious existence. I suspect that entire game is a diversion from the shock and fear of stark, raw reality.

[nature.com]

How can you be so sure?

@WilliamFleming You believe what you want to believe. I don't begrudge. I know the difference between science fiction and science. I don't believe in Santa Claus either.

@barjoe I didn’t say I believe anything. I said I don’t know. I don’t understand the basis of reality.

You are addressing a different question. You are refuting some conjectures made by other people. It’s one thing to sit back and say, “No, I don’t believe this. I don’t believe that.” There’s nothing wrong with rejecting the opinions of other people—I reject some of those claims also.

It is something else entirely different to acknowledge that there really are very deep questions about the basis of reality, and to have ideas of your own about those questions.

@WilliamFleming Those notions make absolutely no sense. I know this as I know there's no such thing as Santa Claus or ghosts or fortune tellers. I just know. I can't prove what I know and don't have to. Believers have to prove. They can't. I'm done.