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LINK Epidemic of police racist violence. Fact or Fiction?

Is there really an epidemic of lethal police violence directed at the black community by racist cops and racist policies? Or are we being manipulated by media broadcasts of only extreme right or extreme left viewpoints. Try to keep your confirmation bias in the cupboard if you take the time to consider Sam Harris' arguments.

MsDemeanour 8 July 3
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2

After 2 decades of being intimately in with police brutality, I can promise you: it's real, it's systemic, it's pervasive and it's UGLY.

All the "arugments" from someone NOT intimately involved are NOT arguments, they're just opinion. And not necessarily an "educated" opinion.

What you're implying is anecdotal evidence which is always dangerous. If you have the data, please present it. Otherwise, you could be susceptible to confirmation bias (as we all are)
You don't have to be intimately involved to make an educated opinion you just have to do your due diligence. It is true that blacks are overrepresented with crime but the overwhelming evidence is that anyone, black or white growing up in poverty is much more likely to turn to crime and substance abuse. Those underlying issues of joblessness, mental health, lack of life fulfilment.

The poor are also less able to defend themselves in court because the justice system weighs heavy toward the rich who can buy a 'not guilty' verdict. If we are to go forward, those inequalities must be addressed. As for police brutality, read the transcript of the video and examine the supporting evidence. Please provide contradictory research if you have it. I am not saying you are wrong. We just need supporting evidence.

I dislike the current trend that discourse is immediately shut down by someone labelled 'racist' 'something-phobic' , 'sexist', 'bigoted'. When we fail to debate ideas, all that is left is violence. I have only recently come to these ideas because I'm tired of my own confirmation bias being continually reinforced and it makes me as closed-minded as a fundamentalist christian.

@MsDemeanour You're accusing me of not posting "data" yet you post nothing but platitudes. Which is, of course, how it often, all TOO often, perpetuates the nonsensical notion that somehow you're OPINIONS are facts. At least I have intimate knowledge versus talking points. But that being said, lets begin. I don't do this shit for fun. I'm paid to know this stuff. So my "opinion" is educated. Versus just an opinion, of which you seem to think is "anecdotal."

You are posting this as an affirmation of YOUR opinion, without ANY evidence to uphold that opinion. I'll give you a hand. Where to start? Let's start with your assumptions. Ready? Here ya go:

You don't have to be intimately involved to make an educated opinion you just have to do your due diligence. It is true that blacks are overrepresented[sic] with crime but the overwhelming evidence is that anyone, black or white growing up in poverty is much more likely to turn to crime and substance abuse. Those underlying issues of joblessness, mental health, lack of life fulfilmentn[sic].

  1. Violent crimes in America are decreasing and have been for decades.
    2.) Men (NO specific color of men) commit more crimes than women.
    3.) Public opinion (AS YOURS) about crime are incorrect.
    4.) Being "poor" does NOT correlate with committing crimes.
    5.) Being in an inner city does not mean crimes will be perpetuated as a higher rate than elsewhere. Alaska has the highest rate of crime, per capita, than any other state. As I posted below, but you apparently didn't bother to read, places such as Detroit, Chicago, etc., don't even appear on the map of the most violent crime ridden states until over halfway through the list. That's number 25 for Illinois. Maryland, and other "white" states are far more crime-ridden than those people ASSUME will be the pilar of violent crimes.
    5 myths about crime/Pew Research
    [pewresearch.org]

The poor are also less able to defend themselves in court because the justice system weighs heavy toward the rich who can buy a 'not guilty' verdict. If we are to go forward, those inequalities must be addressed. As for police brutality, read the transcript of the video and examine the supporting evidence. Please provide contradictory research if you have it. I am not saying you are wrong. We just need supporting evidence.

That has NOTHING to do with you contention in the original post. You're claiming, because Sam Harris is claiming, that police brutality may be a myth or at least blow out of proportion. That has NOTHING to do with how a defendant defends themselves or are defended in a court of law. False equivalency.

I dislike the current trend that discourse is immediately shut down by someone labelled 'racist' 'something-phobic' , 'sexist', 'bigoted'. When we fail to debate ideas, all that is left is violence. I have only recently come to these ideas because I'm tired of my own confirmation bias being continually reinforced and it makes me as closed-minded as a fundamentalist christian.

You can be as tired as labels are you like. Those labels you're using MATTER. Policing in America was founded on racism. It was founded by people, white people, to go and round up runaway slaves. That premise has been and still is being fostered, aided and abetted by people such as Nixon, who's own staffers have admitted, the War on Drugs was to round up and jail the people that wouldn't vote for Nixon (ie: hippies and Blacks.) Joe Biden's 1994 Crime Bill was, has and is, responsible for the systemic oppression of minorities, arresting over 660,000 low level marijuana PER YEAR, and Black and Brown people are arrested at 3 times higher rates than whites, even though they ALL use pot at the same rate.

You can dislike the terms "racist" but it's a real term and it fits a HIGH percentage of Americans. Very likely over 1/3 of all Americans.

You can dislike phobics, but they too exist in LARGE swaths of the American public. So do sexists and massive amounts of bigots.

Why you don't like those terms? I dunno and don't care. People who are apathetic? Are part of the problem. It's just that simple.

When you take 100% of the population, over 60% of those people are white. Yet blacks, at 13% of the population, are arrested 33% more often. Is that because they commit more crimes? No. That's mathematically impossible. They're targeted. That's why. Urban areas have more crime, because there are MORE people living there. It's a matter of math, not color of skin. If you 40K people living in one town, versus 3K people, there'll be more crime.

Nothing about this anecdotal. If you want facts? Trigger warning: The most violent states are mostly Republican ruled and vastly WHITE inhabitated (some brown population/indigenous such as Alaska. but not high population of Blacks.

Mapping Police Violence
[mappingpoliceviolence.org]

FBI Most Dangerous States
Epidemic of police racist violence. Fact or Fiction?

STAYING ON TOPIC With your original post (peer reviewed studies and papers near the bottom.) If you need more, I have entire data bases that I could post here, but I doubt these will be read, so I digress.)

Is racism in policing a real thing?
[scientificamerican.com]
[usatoday.com]
[nature.com]
[tolerance.org]
[ncjrs.gov]
[tandfonline.com]
[d1wqtxts1xzle7.cloudfront.net]

0

Before I watch the clip, I'll automatically, reflexively, say it's fiction.
One truth is, I think, because of dislocations and imperfections in society as a whole, there are pockets of extreme violence and crime, usually or always in inner cities which are predominately black and Latino. This is not prejudice and/or racism; it is fact, in my opinion.
Cops know this, of course, and also know their lives are in immediate danger in such locations, so are in a state of heightened alert, bordering on paranoia. And sure enough, these areas, described as "war zones" by many, are often the scenes of life-threatening situations featuring guns, including automatic weapons, which require police to make split-second decisions. It's not surprising they sometimes make mistakes. To call these mistakes "racist" is often fallacious.

That's not true. That's absolutely NOT true.

The most violent places in America, are not the places you're eluding to. According to the FBI:

The most violent state in America?

#1) Alaska
#2) New Mexico
#3) Tennessee
#4) Arkansas
#5) Nevada
#6) Louisiana
#7) Alabama
#8) Missouri
#9) South Carolina
#10) Arizon
and so on

What you're opinion is, is that states such as Illinois, California, New York, etc., are the most violent because they are highly populated with minorities. It may be a "fact" in your opinion but I'd suggest it's not a very well informed opinion because it's dead wrong.

Illinois (ie: Chicago) isn't on the list until number 19. Maryland, South Dakota, Delaware, etc., etc., etc., are all more violent than Illinois. California is #14. New York doesn't appear until #25.

[usatoday.com]

You're also dead wrong about cops. They AREN'T in imminent danger simply because they work in a city that you're calling "war zones" which again, is eluded to as places like Chicago/Detroit/etc. They aren't in imminent danger simply by showing up for the job. That's a Republican talking point and a union myth spread to the masses to justify murder-by-cop.

Where cops are in the most danger? NO WHERE. 12,000 citizens killed by law enforcement in the past decade. 1098 last year. How many cops were killed in the line of duty last year, by a felonious act? 44.

Mistakes? Really?

Take a look at just how many "mistakes" cops have made so far this year....598 dead citizens as of yesterday. That's a lot of "mistakes" and a whole LOT of needless loss of life. And it isn't happening in the cities you think are hot-beds of danger for the police. It's happening in places such as Reno, NV. It's happening in places that are WHITE, WHITE, WHITE, because cops kill more white people than minorities because there are more of us to kill/brutalize. They do, however, target minorities 25% more than whites. Just imagine...it they were to kill whites as often as blacks. They'd be killing 8 citizens per day instead of only 3. 🙄🙄🙄

[mappingpoliceviolence.org]

@SeaGreenEyez Okay, maybe I AM wrong. You seem to know what you're talking about. I'll think about it. Thanks for taking the time.

@Storm1752 Sam Harris would support your view. He does back it up with a research study but as stated, more research needs to be undertaken.

@SeaGreenEyez . Did you listen or read the transcript?

"Take a look at just how many "mistakes" cops have made so far this year....598 dead citizens as of yesterday. That's a lot of "mistakes" and a whole LOT of needless loss of life........They do, however, target minorities 25% more than whites. Just imagine...it they were to kill whites as often as blacks. They'd be killing 8 citizens per day instead of only 3"

Yes blacks are definitely targeted more than whites but his research suggested that it was black cops that were more likely to pull the trigger on other blacks than the white cops. This is no excuse of course. But there might be more at play here than racism. This is why we need comprehensive research.

@MsDemeanour Is it possible blacks are the recipients of police 'brutality' proportionately more often because they are correspondently more often engaged in criminal behavior, because a white-dominated society freezes them out of opportunities for lucrative employment?
In other words, are some people blaming the police on the front lines, while those really responsible continue to pull the levers?
Could it even be "RACISM" is actually deeply embedded in our DNA (regardless of skin color) and thus can be removed from public life only by legal and judicial fiat?
In other words, are whites no more "racist" than any other racial group, but just only happen to be (in our society) in economic and political power? That if BLACKS were in power it would be WHITES being discriminated against?

@Storm1752 I believe you are on to something here. I believe there were evolutionary reasons why humans are inherently racist. Back in the caveman period, we lived in groups of around 100-150. Our days were spent focusing on survival. If we saw another person approach we had to decide instantly if they were of our clan or were a potential threat. Understanding this genetic predisposition, we can decide to be racist or we can decide not to be. While I call myself non-racist I constantly check myself. I don't want to have any unconscious biases; it is not the person I want to be.

2

It is real, I am White and have been on the receiving end from these COSTUMED FUCKING THUGS . Also I live in Wilmington, NC and we had Three Cops fired last week who all had more than 25 Years on the force for an Hour Long Rant on camera and on the radio how they could wait to start KILLING N*****S . Like I have said for 25 Years, THE ENTIRE ORCHARD IS BAD .

GEGR Level 7 July 4, 2020

I'm a lily white woman and I've been on the receiving end of some serious bullshit by cop.

Yes there has been shocking incidents of police brutality. They certainly need to be held accountable and require greater training.

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