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Who else feels.......

......that the most sad and frustrating thing about a philosophical debate, particular between the religious and non-religious (or the religious and other religious), is the often overwhelming position of the 'opposing' views feeling like there's is the only correct answer.

I see it everywhere. Even on here.

I don't see it as 'us' and 'them'.

I see a species striving to move forward in the best possible manner.

There is good and bad in EVERY position, including that of the atheist.

Why is religion all bad? I've seen belief, in and of itself, be beneficial to many people.

Who am I to actively tear them down, and shit all over their beliefs?

Here's how I judge people:

Are you an arsehole?

If so, I don't really want to know you.

There are good people who are christian, buddhist, hindu, muslim, sikh, atheist, agnostic etc etc etc. Who's beliefs support them and comfort them.

Even us: I am comforted by the belief that there is no great design; that we're just here. So live it fully!

But there are others who have genuinely changed for the better by undertaking a particular belief system.

Who am I to cut their rope?

Kreig 7 Nov 25
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12 comments

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0

In a perfect world, I would agree with you. Everyone should have the right to believe how they wish and to gain solace from whatever belief system supports their life goals. However, there are so many dangers in organized religion that lend it to persecuting others, leading followers down a hateful path, influencing politics and policies that affect everyone, not just those who believe in a certain way. America is supposed to be a country who has a separation of church and state, but it's not really true. Our current government is riddled with officials who believe that the conservative teachings of christian evangelicals should be law. They want creationism taught in our public schools. They want non-christian people to be persecuted and kicked out of our country. They want people of different sexual preferences to be punished. It is a very scary time. The power of the Spanish inquisition killed tens of thousands of people. The Holy wars killed thousands. There are spans of history where a few religious leaders had the power to commit genocide in the name of their "god." Religion is a belief system with untold power over people and it is wielded at the whim of just a few. So, while I want to be respectful of others beliefs, I do not want any religious person to be given power over me or anyone else.

1

You will believe what you believe and I don't need to know what that is. As long as you keep it to yourself, I'm fine. But if you tell me what you believe, you need to be ready for me to disagree. And If you try to apply it with force, you need to be ready for a fight.

1

There are always those who are fanatics about everything and do think they have the answers to everything including how one should feel about religion or lack thereof. Those that judge others have issues themselves they need to look at. I don't care if you worship little green men from outer space that glow in the dark and bark at the moon, just don't push your shit onto me and judge me for NOT believing like you do.

0

I love your philosophy.

Donna Level 6 Dec 9, 2017
1

I feel the way you do. In the same breath, however, I uphold the side of reason and reason alone in matters of science and politics, and I will never stop fighting to keep a wall, strong and tall, between religion and government. To each his or her own -- but their right to wave their holy book around ends where my personal space begins, and at the door of the laboratory, public classroom, or government building or workplace.

2

Very well said. Everyone should read your post. Beautiful.

2

I agree, my belief's are my own and I would hope they are respected by those around me, as I also respect their right to whatever belief they choose. I have the right to disagree with it, but not disrespect their right to believe.

You have the right to disrespect another person's beliefs it they are disgusting, like female circumcision, or the Klu Klux Klan. "Oh, but it's their culture!". No, we have to acknowledge other people's beliefs, but no way do we have to respect them.

0

Strewth! @kreig you are awesome ya Aussie bastard

3

I personally don't care what people believe. It's what they do with those beliefs that scares the hell out of me. When it takes a scientifically advanced country backwards to a place where someone like our current president can be elected, and people try to enact laws based on a moral system that was devised thousands of years ago. Then it is a problem. If people want to look up at the sky or down at the floor and talk to themselves, who's to stop them, but when you talk to yourself too much, you should probably seek professional help.
The people in this country used to be proud of our achievements, but nowadays they seem to be proud of our ignorance.

3

The fact that grown "mature" adults need to believe in lies and suck their thumbs for the sake of personal comfort is unfortunate, unevolved, and evidence that education has not done its part. Personally, I'd rather be miserable and know the truth than to be comfortable and believe in falsities.

Cutting their "rope" is for the greater good if our race is to evolve. If you can convince people of absurdities, you can convince them to commit atrocities. This "comfort" that religion brings also provides safe haven for the zealots who use it for evil. I know it sounds harsh, but this planet won't get past our current condition till we eradicate beliefs that so obviously hold us back.

2

I agree with what you are saying. Faith can be of comfort and help to many. Live and let live and do no harm is what I try to live by. As long as no one tries to force me to accept their belief as truth I have no problem respecting theirs. 🙂

Betty Level 8 Nov 25, 2017

No respect for people's beliefs when they're rubbish - eg. female circumcision, or white supremacy. We don't have to respect others beliefs - we have to acknowledge them. And they decide what we want to do about it.

@Agnostic1

Female circumcision, male circumcision, stoning, and abuse of any kind is "Doing Harm", and I do have a problem with that.

I respect those who have a faith they do not impose on others and they do no harm. 🙂

@betpaq - I'm afraid one of the reasons atheist numbers are rising, is that there are NO faiths which are not imposed on others and do no harm. Faith by its very definition is the suspension of critical thinking, which is where all the problems begin.

@Agnostic1

There are many reasons why people are part of a faith and not all have suspended critical thinking. Whether it is tradition or to be involved with a charitable group, or some other reason. I have met some very intelligent people who question the validity of the bible but are involved with the soup kitchen, addiction centers, and providing shelter for the homeless etc. These people do not force their belief on others but are accepting and open-minded a well as curious. I respect them as they respect me. 🙂

1

This is the first site of this type I have engaged in. I have just been here maybe a week but have read a lot of posts out of interest. The need to prove others wrong and that they are stupid for basic human behaviors is a very prominent theme.Even Science can be wrong. When I was in medical school in biochemistry class there was an entire metabolic pathway they told us we no longer had to learn because it was disproven, but had previously been taken as fact. Science can prove things within the realm of our sense but who is to say ours is the only perceptual set?I think it is most important for us to figure out how to get along. For most of humanity that is a problem yet to be solved.A bit rambling but have been looking at the site a long time this morning

Oh groan. Missing the point that science tests and retests itself, and admits when it's wrong. Belief systems don't.

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