Agnostic.com

1 2

For anybody who finds the claims of Christianity to be absurd, I attach the dialog below, with thanks to @Normanbites for the link to [chatnow.org] . Matt is a Christian, and he makes a complete fool of himself. Enjoy!

Topic: The Creation
Connected with
Matt.
Matt
Hi there, how are you today?
Judy
Hello Matt. I am well. How are you?
Matt
I am glad to hear that you are well. I am doing well as well, thank you for asking
Matt
What would you like to talk about today?
Judy
Christians state that the Universe was created. How do Christians justify their primary assumption about the nature of time in that statement?
Matt
Well, we assume based on what the scriptures each that prior to God creating, He has always existed and is not bound by space since He is spiritual. He has always existed infinitely and is not bound by time, in fact, we believe that He created time and set its boundaries
Judy
How have you validated the claims of the Scriptures?
Matt
Well, I am not God and I am not His judge. If God is too be the transcendant God like being that He presents Himself as and He needs to be in order to accomplish and maintain/sustain the universe then clearly He is capable of such feats
Matt
to'
Matt
Remember, we believe God to be supernatural and the one who set the laws of nature/the universe
Matt
He is not bound by them
Matt
He interacts within them but sometimes beyond them
Judy
On what evidence do you base your belief that God is supernatural?
Matt
I base it on His own confessions/revelation
Judy
Where are those confessions/revelation?
Matt
Genesis
Matt
Revelation
Matt
Exodus
Matt
The various prophetic books
Matt
the Gospels
Matt
Acts
Matt
Psalms
Judy
On what basis do you give credence to the Bible?
Matt
most of the historical portions of scripture have beenverified by achaelogical discovery and study
Matt
the moralistic/philosophical portions are logical and seeming morally upright/good
Matt
the historicity of Jesus is a known fact
Matt
despite frivolous claims/arguments against such
Matt
most of these claims are modern ones from around the 1800s
Judy
How does any of that support the existence claim of the God of the Bible?
Matt
if Jesus truly existed
Matt
and did what He said He did
Matt
that alone s enough proof
Matt
Paul the apostle literally armed the detractors of christianity witht he argument that would unravel chrisitianity
Matt
prove that Jesus is not who He was and that He was not resurrected
Matt
yet no one has been able to do as much
Judy
You claim that the existence of Jesus demonstrates the existence of God. What is your line of reasoning, please?
Matt
Jesus claimed to be God
Matt
and performed miraculous signs that indicated and authenticated as much
Matt
none of his oppontents could dney what He did
Matt
deny'
Judy
How does that claim demonstrate the existence of God?
Matt
Have you read JOhn ?
Matt
Jesus is God incarnate
Matt
If Jesus existed and proved who He was then God exists and is real
Judy
On what basis do you claim that Jesus is God incarnate?
Matt
Jesus' own claims
Matt
and actions that support His claims
Matt
there is a reason his opponents wanted to have Him crucified
Matt
in their eyes He was blaspheming and claming to be God
Judy
How does any claim amount to a demonstration of the existence of that which is claimed?
Matt
those were the charges levied against Him
Matt
Hello?
Judy
I ask you again: How does any claim amount to a demonstration of the existence of that which is claimed?
Matt
i've told you
Matt
none of his opponents are able to deny His claims and His actions
Matt
So then that means He was telling the truth and is who He says He is
Matt
which is God
Judy
You have failed to show that any existence claim demonstrates the existence of that which is claimed.
Matt
Why don't you look into His claims
Matt
and see for ourself if anyone has been able to deny them
Matt
hint: no one has for over 2000 years
Judy
That is nothing more than a claim; it does not amount to a demonstration of existence.
Matt
Jesus and His apostles claimed He was resurrected
Matt
if He had not resurrected, His opponents could have simply gone to His grave and present His dead body
Matt
They would have been highly motivated as Christianity was seen as a cult deserving of being culled
Matt
Why would Christians face heavy persecution and martyrdom for something they knew was a lie?
Matt
no one is fanatical enough to die by burning at the stake, mutilation, stoning or eviscerated in the coliseum games by lions and gladiators
Matt
for anything they know to be a lie or are suspicious about
Matt
Why was it able to outpace its persecution?
Matt
there were heavy mponetary fines and property confiscations if there were even rumors that you were a christian
Matt
monetary'
Judy
The claim of the Resurrection does not demonstrate the existence of the Resurrection.
Matt
You are right
Matt
a claim in and of itself
Matt
however his opponetns could not provide a body
Matt
and there were over 100s of witnesses tot he resurrection
Matt
if you read Acts, paul refers to thm and even gives location and name for those wanting to do their own personal investigation
Judy
Never mind the typos - I am comfortable reading your words, typos and all - and thanks for making the effort anyway (more to follow)
Judy
The claims that you provide do not amount to a demonstration of the existence of the Resurrection.
Matt
what demonstration would satisfy?
Matt
oh yeah, the typos are simply me typing too fast for the text field to generate and being too impatient to wait before hitting "enter"
Judy
The resurrection is a one-off event (if it ever happened). It cannot be repeated, so the claim cannot be falsified, and so it must be dismissed.
Matt
really?
Matt
the assassination of jfk didn't happen
Matt
since its a one off event and cannot be repeated
Matt
this is similiar to the logic you are currently employing
Judy
Comparing the Resurrection with the assassination of JFK is the logical fallacy of false analogy.
Matt
why?
Matt
according to who and how come?
Matt
by what standards?
Judy
There is zero evidence for the Resurrection. There are historical records of the assassination. By the standards of historical evidence and by the standards of the Scientific method.
Judy
If you make the claim of historical evidence for the Resurrection, it is up to you to provide it.
Matt
zero evidence according to who?
Matt
according to the standards employed at that time the resurrection is sufficiently affirmed
Judy
My assertion that there is zero evidence for the Resurrection is trivially falsifiable by design. I leave it to you to falsify it.
Matt
according to the standards of the time of the jfk assassination
Matt
we have the live t.v. broadcasting and recordings
Matt
along with photographs and eye witnesses
Matt
now there were no such things as camreas back then
Matt
so what was used?
Matt
eye witnessess
Matt
eye witnesses who would have been under penalty of law for committing known perjury
Judy
Given that the claims of the Bible are manifestly false, I do not give credence to any part of it.
Matt
which claims are manifestly false?
Matt
have you looked into the resurrection of Jesus?
Judy
Biblical absurdities: Creation taking 6 days. Adam's rib. The Garden of Eden. A talking serpent. The Tree of Knowledge. Noah's ark. Methusela. The Virgin birth. The Resurrection.
Matt
Why are those absurdities
Matt
again If God is transcendent none of these things are impossible
Judy
You have assumed the existence of God without demonstrating the existence of God.
Matt
Can you prove that God doesn't exist?
Judy
If you may the existence claim of your God, it is up to you to provide falsifiable evidence to support that existence claim.
Matt
why is it up to me
Matt
you start witht eh assumption there is no God
Matt
prove it
Matt
the'
Judy
Because that is the way that the Scientific Method works.
Matt
it only works one way?
Matt
your hypothesis is that God doesn't exist
Matt
what work have you done to prove that?
Judy
I have not made the assumption that there is no God. I have made the observation that nobody has produced any falsifiable evidence to support the existence claim of any god in the last 5,000 years. By the way, that observation claim is again trivially falsifiable by design.
Judy
There is no such thing as proof in science.
Matt
Do you have conclusive repeatable tests/results?
Matt
also how can you trust your senses?
Matt
how can you trust that your method of observation and testing is 100% accurate or reliable?
Judy
I have not made any claim, so I have no need of repeatable tests/results.
Judy
I have not made the claim that my method f observation and testing is 100% accurate or reliable. You question is void.
Matt
So you don;t claim that God doesn't exist
Matt
then if that is the case then you are saying that God could exist
Judy
Yes, the God of the bible could exist. So could Osiris, the Ice Giant, Eros, Neptune, Pluto, Mars, Kali, the Flying Spaghetti Monster (PBUH), Somnos, Odin, Zeus, the Sky Serpent and Koalemos.

anglophone 9 Mar 22
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

1 comment

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

1

Kind of long, but the point is made.

You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:657162
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.