Agnostic.com

7 5

QUESTION How disturbed are you by what has happened in Gaza and how does it get better?

I feel like people were baited. Right before Nabka they moved the embassy to Jerusalem and used a Trumper priest that calls Islam the religion of Satan for opening ceremonies. Using bullets that explode to do as much harm as possible to people protesting, people who feel trapped and want to go home. I feel like there are so many ways to broker peace and this was not that. This created amputees and dead to be mourned. Then the U.S. saying this is not a crime to attack people this way? It must have been common knowledge that there would be protests. I don't understand this course of action. Where are the real peacemakers and what should be done? I have wondered since I was a child how this situation can become better and wonder now what ideas people have.

thinkwithme 7 May 21
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

7 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

1

WMD in the middle East!
Netanyahu: Gaza border protesters were attempting to acquire pebbles of mass destruction
Fair warning: this is satire.
[thebeaverton.com]

Opinions like yours focus attention on the actions of the Israelis and Israel's alone. You believe you are doing a service to the Palestinian people. But, by having a narrow grasp on the players in this particular ME crisis, you actually do them a disservice. And, I believe that when people fail to understand or delve deep into the intricacies of the world players, in the long run, the same hate and dynamics persist.

@crazycurlz Hold on there. I agreed with you on the situation is complicated. Now you accuse me of being pro-Palestinian because I choose to explain their side. I choose to explain the Iranian side as well. Will you accuse me of that as well? While you take the side of Israel like there's no tomorrow, all over this post and insulting members as well.
Your position is quite clear, now can you accept we all have an opinion and you do not have all the answers either.
There are many players including now Russia that has been trying to fill the role of mediator in the proxy war between Israel and Iran happening in Syria.
[timesofisrael.com]
Like you said it's complicated. Do you know everything?

@Lukian Yes crazycurls does know everything. Especially about a 'broader scope' that she fails to specify which presumably entitles her to demean people expressing facts that are uncomfortable. Obviously, to lack understanding of her secret 'big picture' is to be completely uninformed.

This regardless of how much real history, as opposed to Israeli propaganda, one has studied in actual history books and ancient writings dating back to the beginnings of recorded history. That doesn't matter. What matters is that one doesn't 'see' what political Zionist betters do.

To see with your own lying eyes, the carnage wrought by the most powerful military force on a people who don't possess so much as one tank or warplane isn't good enough. To reason that hordes of unarmed people protesting their captivity in squalid, toxic conditions are incapable of presenting a serious martial threat to an invader armed to the teeth is viewed as partial understanding. There is really a secret bigger picture wherein one would, if an elite political Zionist, instantly recognize that ethnic cleansing, apartheid, detainment and torture without charges, summary execution, and perioding bombing, jokingly called 'mowing the grass' are ACUTALLY DEFENSE!

The bigger picture of these crimes against humanity can be seen alright, but not in any false narrative one gets from political Zionist racist Fascists masquerading as Jews living under an egalitarian, self-governing "Democracy". It is the biggest and longest lasting popularized myth known to humanity.

2

And this is the US response at the UN security counsel when Palestine raised this issue. Great diplomacy

Unconscionable.

Pure, unadulterated arrogance....and a lying bitch, to boot!

1

Very disturbed indeed. I don't know what I can do about it.

educate yourself on the UN. Learn which countries are terrorist countries and which of the countries are led by dictators.

2

It is amazing to me that "what do you think of the middle east situation?" is still a thing.

IMO the reason it is still a thing is because there are alliances that have formed beyond Israel and the Palestinians. There is investment on both sides to keep this 'distraction' alive at the expense of the Israeli civilians and Palestinians. For both, the quality of life is diminished.

3

Yes, people are baited, on all sides. This conflict is greater than moving the embassy and than the shooting of more people. It's greater even than simply Israel v the Palestinians. Leadership on both sides have brokered deals (Israel with the US and with neighboring Arab countries), (Palestinians with Iran and other Arab countries) that keep this conflict entrenched. With Trump in office, the religious right are now married to Netanyahu and he's just the wrong leadership for Israel's future.
The Israeli people and the Palestinian people are the only parties that want to see an end to the conflict.
@Anemynous reaction is pretty standard to the complexity: blame the easiest to grasp, most visible problem: the Israelis killing unarmed civilians. Unfortunately, Arabs use suicide for PR, too. The whole thins was a setup on both sides.
This issue is much too complicated to reduce it to emotional reaction like Anemynous. If there is to be real change, leadership on both sides have to be held accountable for their actions. The Palestinian Authority and Iran want to wipe out Israel. Netanyahu and the religious appear to be perfectly fine without a two-state solution. The neighboring Arab countries allow/count on Israel to help them control their own populations but publicly condemn Israel. There is so much at play here.
Get informed. Look at the UN and how many countries with dictators are represented. This issue goes way beyond Israel and the Palestinians. Hope you keep posting and look beyond what's visible for the answers to your questions.

I'm not going to say anything, No really I do agree it is the leaders.

you're right that it's complicated yet in the end: Israel is a nuclear power (that has not signed the Nuclear proliferation agreement) and the West have condemned Iran from gaining nukes as a legitimate defense against Israel. Israel gets all the US' praise and Iran is being punished. Israel, Iran and it appears the US are each a theocracy trying to impose their gawd given rights to their opinion while more secular countries condemn Israel at the UN for systematically but slowly settle the Palestinian territory in the hopes of making the situation too complicated to agree to a 2 state solution.
Yep it's foolishly stupidly complicated.

Yes, indeed - look at the records of the Security Council and the number of times Israel has ignored UN resolutions with impunity. Look at how many times Israel and the US have vetoed progressive UN resolutions. - (and my own country, the UK, has a history of such low tactics also) The Israelis are set upon establishing a 'Greater Israel' with a policy of expansionism (Imperialism) and are not interested in a peaceful settlement with the Palestinians now, and never were in the past. They elect and hire professional liars to feed the western Main Stream News Media which gleefully publishes and thus publicises their vile untruthfulness to aid their 'Greater Israel Project'. In the past, Jews were terrorised by pogroms in many countries of Europe and encouraged in Tsarist Russia on the principle of 'Divide and Rule'..and it worked a treat! Then came the Nazi holocaust and a wave a great sympathy (absolutely justified) swept over the world. But now, Fascist Zionist Jews of Israel, are milking this sympathy bone dry! They've cried "Wolf!" too often, and it's well before time they were brought to account and justice given to the long suffering Palestinians.

@Lukian Thank you for your insight - very rare in politics these days.

@bolshevik41 thanks for the show of support. Just so we are clear, my responses tend to be more subdued. In this particular conflict, I try to avoid involving the named religion only because this has more to do with geopolitical arm wrestling then actual religious belief.

2

Yes and it doesn't.

it is too hopeless and unsatisfying to accept that

3

I am greatly aggrieved by it, and many other atrocities practiced under the sanction of a faith or political ideology. I can't fathom how the perpetrators are failing to grasp the irony of the genocide they are participating in. Fuck Zionism! The problem isn't that Jews want a homeland. The problem is they don't want anyone else in it. That's garbage.

I do have a perspective, growing up with a Jewish last name and once being a very young girl that was called Jewbag daily. I still have to handle my own lizard brain reactions. I feel defensiveness and fear well in me and I have to breathe. It isnt about Jews. Its about violence, violence practiced by humans of all labels. Jews were relocated "sent back" after tremendous human atrocity. They want a homeland, a safe place, where they govern and control so antisemitic people will not seek to destroy them again. So we gave them a home to rule and said fuck you to the people already living there. The problem has always been there is no safe haven for people where some people have their basic human rights and some do not.

@thinkwithme no one said ' you' to the Palestinians living there. They were offered a homeland alongside Israel and instead chose to go to war. In addition, the quality of life for Palestinians is better than for many Arabs throughout the Arab world. I think you should stop feeling that you have a lizard brain and start using it to look more closely at the condemnation Israel receives in relation to the rest of the dictator countries in the world.

@crazycurlz Lizard brain is just the part of the brain that is fight or flight that gets activated by fear. It's just part of my brain, part of everyone's brains. Here's one article about life in Gaza.. [bbc.com]

What I see is blatantly obvious to me. Maybe I'm a Laurel, and some are Yanny's. I see a destitute impoverished nation being oppressed by an affluent and able one. Terrorism is an act of desperation. It is not anyone's first resort. I too have Jewish ancestors not too distant. I know exactly what I'm saying when I say: "Fuck Zionism" ... and we can add "Manifest Destiny" and "Jihad" and any other bullshit ethos that sanctions treating others as inferior. What has happened is Israel has perpetually eroded the rights of Palestinians and encroached upon the boundary whenever possible. As I said, it's fine to want a homeland... I guess? Maybe that's an idea that is just as antiquated as religion... maybe that whole idea is retarded (in the literal sense). Maybe we could just quit with all the racial and religious garbage and realize there is only one country and we all need to share it?

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:87161
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.