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I thought this group would stir shit up, and it has. People are passionate about this topic on both sides. I don't have all the answers, hell, I don't know all the questions. What I do know is that something has to change. Firearms are killing innocent people for no reason. This is unacceptable to me, and I mean to stop it. People are going to kill people nobody can change that. We don't have to make it easy for them. I think there are a lot of people who don't take gun ownership seriously. I know more guns is not the answer. I don't know if I can change anything, and I will never know unless I try. So this is me trying.

MikeFlora 7 Feb 17
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0

the only countries with a higher death per capita rate of murder by gun are brazil columbia el salvador guatanala honduras jamaica panama swaziland uruguay and venezuela. it seems the new world is a little f---ed up wouldn't you say? funny mexico is not. they have a better record yet they have a minor civil war going on !

0

you in the states are probably beyond redemption. read the yukon by pierre burton to really see how the origins of america are so different from canadas with almost the exact same environments to cope with. the british APPOINTED all their judges by responsible peers in their societies whereas americans voted for their judges and got what they paid for . the interests of the monied ! then add how schools are funded locally allowing whole towns to be denied a comprehensive education. even if you come up with a solution it will take 20 - 30 years to implement. do we have that much time ?

2

We need to become like Japan. They have banned assault weapons and hand guns in their country but you can buy a shot gun and rifles. They make you take a day to take a class and pass a written exam extremely thorough background check a mental evaluation. They are forced to keep their guns unloaded in their house bullets in 1 drawer and gun in another both under lock and key with a random once a year police inspection. Sure with how many guns there are in this country it will be hard to get them at first but it would slow shooting down and it would get this country under control. Very hard for criminals to get guns and the people who want guns for home protection or whatever can still have them. Also this way it eleminates the possibility of a child shooting themselves because idiots wants to keep loaded weapons around them.

3

I am neither the most pro gun nor the most anti gun person. I don't think that guns solve everything. In fact most often they create more problems as we can clearly see. On the other side I like the second amendment and I seriously wonder if we will need to defend ourselves if another civil war ever breaks out in this country. It might be the case that we're too sedated in this country for something like that to happen but this country is full of surprises so you never know.

But here's another problem. If a gun ban is ever passed, how are they going to enforce it? Don't forget that the people you're taking the guns from... well... have guns! That alone might start a war up in this bitch!

At the same time an average Joe doesn't need an assault rifle. Many shootings in recent years have involved assault rifles. Then again any gun can kill you so where's the line? I would make it hard to get a gun but not impossible. That's the best I can come up with. It's a sticky issue because way too much evil has been done in the name of guns yet reversing the second amendment is also wrong. Where do I go with this?

The whole reason we do need military grade weapons was illustrated beautifully by your concern for a second civil war. There's no such thing as an "Assault rifle." Much better argument than most though.

0

Would you believe me if I mention that the last school shooting could have been prevented? No, no by confiscating guns but by arresting the guy...since the FBI has info. on him.

BTW. about assault weapons....yes, these ones shouldn't be available to civilians.

DUCHESSA Level 8 Feb 17, 2018

fill the jails and the mental hospitals and still you will be the most violent country on earth

@markdevenish Educate the people and violence will be reduced....Incarceration / mental health placement help

1

The "fire arms don't kill people, people kill people" way of thinking makes me laugh. I read on the hated FB the other day "nuclear weapons don't kill people, people kill people" about Krazy Kim.......same stupid rational, yes? I believe gun control is the key.

AzVixen52 Level 7 Feb 17, 2018

Weapons require makers and operators. They are inanimate objects with no ability to function them selves. Your argument is not valid.

take the toys away from the boys before someone gets burnt or has an eye poked out

@jayneonacobb Neither is your opinon

@AzVixen52 you watch toy story too much if you think inanimate objects have agency. It's not my opinion that inanimate objects don't have agency, it's a fact.

@jayneonacobb Toy Story? I think you are the child watching cartoons, not I.

1

This topic is so facinating I'm amazed we can have it and not one bill has passed to do anything about it. My roommate has a gun. She's the daughter of a cop so I expected it, and she's almost safe [I don't think she has a safe for it, don't even know what kind it is]. I haven't heard of her needing it, and I've lived with her for almost a year and a half, known her since 6th grade.

She thinks it's a good time to tote the Mental Health initiative, which I find a little offensive since I have no gun and have a mental illness. I know of no one with a mental illness and an urge to kill children, or harm anyone outside of themselves. Mental health awareness is in the Public Health sector, not the Public Safety sector. They're two completely different things. You can't throw a stone and hit two birds with this.

So, instead of public awareness we get Stigma and blame mentally ill people. Why not, because if there's a two-person incident involving a gun, who are the police ultimately going to blame?

But yes, I thought that we could just take the bullets and let them have their precious trophies. Charge $2k per bullet. But let's also blame the incompetence of our government for letting people have access to weapons that murder children by the dozens.

DaniMa Level 5 Feb 17, 2018

You have to be mentally ill to want to commit a senseless massacre. It's not a slight against all mental illness. It's a legitament health concern with broadly sweeping implications. Better health care may very well have prevented many of these tragedies from occurring.

Do you have a fire extinguisher? If so, how often do you hope to use it? That's exactly what a gun is for if properly utilized. Taking peoples gun rights away might as well be taking away their right to a fire extinguisher. I can make bullets, casings, primers and powder for pennies on the dollar in my home. Charge as much as you want, it won't stop the market. Besides, that's called price fixing and it's illegal.

@jayneonacobb you are talking a lot of ... well, bullshit. Do you call all criminals mentally ill? or just or just the shooters, or mass shooters? These people are not "mentally ill" in the sense of an illness that can be treated with medication and therapy. Not as a rule, this just smears the people with mental illness. As Dani Ma hints at, suicide is a MUCH more likely scenario for those. Now do you say they are mentally ill of the Muslims who walk into places with suicide Bombs? Or are they "terrorists"? The language used in this is only serving the interests of the Gun lobby. The latest shooter was not, as they call him even in the non fox media: a "troubled youth who loved guns." He was (still is) a youth fed on a culture of hate that he completely endorsed. He was a hater and ... sociopath. With super easy access to super weapons.

@ZebZaman whose rights do you think the bill of rights refers to? The governments, or the people's? I'll give you a hint, they expressly provided that answer at the beginning of the preamble. You may have heard of it. It starts with "We the people." I bring this up because I've already answered all of those questions adnosium.

@ZebZaman i disagree . violent acts are a form of mental illness. there is no such thing as evil . their behaviour is detrimental to the survival of the species. that's it that's all

@markdevenish as someone with a mental illness, I take seriois offense. What you're missing is that the mentally ill are usually the scapegoats for those who willingly plan out and murder large groups of people. A white supremacist group took responsibility for the shooter's training. He was a white supremacist and mentally unstable because of that willing brainwashing program.

Mentally ill people are terrified of hurting someone other than themselves. Our ultimate goal is to blend in with society so they don't see us as a threat, when we're clearly only a threat to ourselves.

0

Firearms don't kill people, they are inanimate objects. Furthermore firearms are delivery systems for bullets, bullets are weapons, not guns. People kill people, not weapons. Weapons are tools. There are thousands of types weapons available. Guns just happen to be popular. Jeffery Dahmer killed people with a dumbell. Anything can be used as a weapon. I can use your shirt as a weapon. I can also easily make high explosives, deadly gases and even electronic devices that emit a singal that liquifies people from the inside out. Taking away the ability to defend your self from a criminal or assailant is not humane. This debate has been over ever since Obama supported the second amendment and Wal-Mart started selling ARs. The only thing you're changing is the venue of debate on this subject. Once again, that debate is over.

@Hugh first of all, it is a legal requirement for me to have a full and complete understanding of gun law. That makes me an expert on the subject, despite your opinion to the contrary. This makes me more qualified than you to weigh in on this subject. I'm an EMT, but I don't argue with doctors about health. Your analogy is false.

Secondly if there hasn't been evidence for cause and effect after the 600+ years of firearms existing, then there never will be.

Finally the bill of rights is inalienable and unabridgable, that includes the right to keep and bare arms. You don't have a right to infringe upon others rights. Your stance is unsupported on all accounts.

You and everyone else in your camp have never been able to make a constitutional or valid argument for gun control. If you did you would have your way. You can't though because you have no leg to stand on in this debate.

The presence of a gun does take away the need for rational humane thought

Let's get some nukes... I mean nukes don't kill people, people kill people 😀

@Ad4hubby who made those nukes? Who deploys them? People.

@Mcflewster the presence of a gun saved my life more than once. It also put at least one violent criminal behind bars so they couldn't further harm the general public during their incarceration.

@PeppermintDreads because he can't argue this point well, or at all?

@jayneonacobb it works the exact same with the guns 🙂

@Ad4hubby that makes no sense in the context.

@Hugh: Bravo! Well said.

@Hugh no, you find it impossible to argue against my superior knowledge and expertise on the subject. It's ok, you are trying to argue from feelings and ignorance. That usually causes the feelings your having when you have blind faith in something. I can help you accept reality, if you let me. You seem smart, that's not a dig, it's true.

Who's rights do you think the bill of rights was referring to? I'll give you a hint... "we the people."

@PeppermintDreads are you going to contribute meaningfully to the converstation, or just troll?

1

I'm right with you, great comment by the way

7

Now I appreciate there are many caveats to this and I come from and live in a country with very strict gun laws but..........the simple truth is less guns means less shootings, i.e. no guns no shootings. There are simply too many guns floating around which means the likelihood of one falling into the hands of an unscrupulous or unbalanced individual increases many fold. Gun registration would be a good start so every gun is recorded which means taking responsibility for yours. You can own a gun in the UK but the criteria is rigorous and so it should be and people still slip through the net but shootings are less per capita and this can't be coincidence. I'm fairly sure there is a constitutional issue for America to over come as well, but it would certainly help if groups like the NRA were more vocal in there condemnation and were onside with robust controls and responsibility rather than the ;Over my dead body' mantra, They could lead the way, you can still own a gun but you can also show not only some moral leadership but common sense and critical thinking along the way. I get the distinct impression that there is an increasing ground swell of opinion where by something meaningful has to, and probably will be, done.

ipdg77 Level 8 Feb 17, 2018

I got that from a moron on facebook yesterday... "out of my cold dead hands" he said... It's beyond me...

@Ad4hubby it means "I will die to protect my rights, and yours." Rather noble, actually.

You don't live here, you can't vote here, you don't get a say in what happens here. What plan do you propose to eradicate firearms from the most well armed society in history? What ever it is, it won't work. It's my right to own guns. It's not your right, or anyone else's to infringe upon that.

But then, what was it that happened in "gun-free" Sweden a few years ago?

@jayneonacobb You know what you're absolutely right. In your country it is your right to own a gun and with a bit more paperwork it is in mine too, But I'm happy to have my 'freedom' impinged upon to save a life or two.

@jayneonacobb so the shooter in florida is noble... nice

@ipdg77 a killer will try to kill regardless of the tools available to them. Besides, there is a global black market of guns. I can litterally buy a gun in every country on the black market if I wanted to. It's easy, it's cheaper and it is a fact of life. I'm guessing you're from the EU or Australia. Those countries still have murder and assault. Look at the muslims for examples.

@Ad4hubby that's not what I said at all, you're taking my response out of context. I could do the same with what you just wrote m, but I don't because it's dishonest.

@jayneonacobb Everybody here has a say, you don't like it go some where else. I told you once to be civil, I'm not going to tell you again.

@mkeaman It wasn't Sweden, it was Norway. And shit can happen anywhere. But considerably less of this shit happens in all nations that are counted as "developed" and the vast majority of "undeveloped" as well. Why are you people from the US so wedded to your gun killings? It is totally beyond me. Defending it with arguments that make the mind boggle. Maybe guns are your true religion. And $$$.

@MikeFlora I am. I'm just pointing out a fact. I'm still answering their questions and points. I even consider them. The fact remains that they still have no legal say and technically foreign influence on policy is collusion. Collusion is illegal. And so to spare anyone breaking the law I need to point that out.

not happening. guns will plague america for ever amen

That is part of my plan. Instead of going head on with the NRA, try to work with them let them work on the training and licensing part

9

Sadly many americans like dead kids. That is the simple answer. UK and Australia decided that they did not like dead kids and they did something about guns. This has been happening for years... many more kids will die because americans love dead kids.

Knitfreak Level 7 Feb 17, 2018

I don't think anyone in their right mind likes dead children. That's a piss poor argument, it doesn't even constitute an argument.

@jayneonacobb How is that a piss poor argument when the UK and Australia put lives first?? I think it's a damn good argument.

@Ad4hubby it's not the same thing. They still have violence and murder too, they just lie about it more. Look at the muslim no go zones, or just muslims in general. You think the massacres in Paris and London weren't gun violence? That's delusional.

That's a little extreme, Nobody likes dead kids

@daniellaws It's not that we are fine with them, we can't get rid of them, we've lost control.

2

Gun lovers will love their guns. They been brainwashed but some will say you are the brainwashed only thing for sure is they love their guns and they feel safer when loving their guns. So in their mentality... does not matter how many innocents will die... they feel safer with their guns. Not that makes sense but that is american rationale at their lowest denominator.

It's a collective american sickness 😟

6

I believe if this subject were taught in junior high school explaining what Republicans support and Democrats don't about guns and 12 year old daughters came home one day and asked their parents who they vote for and if the answer is Republicans then the daughter looked straight into their parents eyes and said.

You caused this!

Anonbene Level 8 Feb 17, 2018

@jayneonacobb you are done.

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