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This is DJVJ311's opinion of our group
"Gun Control Now!" is not an issue focused group. It is an advocacy and support group
It may be an "echo chamber"
people to venture out from those echo chambers to places where we as a larger community can expect them to hold themselves to higher standards of rational, dispassionate discourse about topics they are passionate about.
This is his opinion which he has a right to. We don't have to like it, but we have to respect it.

I think Mr.DJVJ311 needs to explain himself a lot better about he says this about this group. Especially advocating to keep innocent people from being blown away en mass, for no other reason than they just happened to be standing where they were standing, is a bad thing?

MikeFlora 7 May 9
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Why does evrything/everyone have to have a label? This whole spat is stupid.

nvrnuff Level 8 May 12, 2018

Hmmm. it seems I am totally missing the whole concept of this group. I need to read the mission statement again. I think my recent comment have little to do with the current discussion about "what kind of group this is".

Seeker55 Level 8 May 9, 2018

The man posted a video here just to stir shit up and then talked about our group behind my back. What did he think I was going to do, say thank you. "Echo chamber" implies we have no ideas of our own and are just repeating what other people say. I'm not going to argue with this guy, I said my piece and now it's time to get back to what we have to do.


So you're going to take parts of my comment from the community senate group and post it here without asking me or tagging me? Seems like you are not curious what I think and are simply looking for people to bolster your own opinion. That is what this group is. And it should be protected for what it is.

Here is my commentary that is NOT just about this group and should have only been discussed in the Community Senate group, where no response was made and no comments were made by @MikeFlora even though he is a member of that group, had commented on other things on the same post. By doing this, he demonstrates my point.

He even removed the sentence in the middle of the small part he copied where I state my support of this group for exactly what it is. I invite @Admin, and any other members of the Community Senate Group to verify that what is below the following line is my post. I will not go into more detail about that discussion that was supposed to remain in the Community Senate Group

Random suggestion: Group Categories

"Gun Control Now!" is not an issue focused group. It is an advocacy and support group. Such things fulfill a human need and should not be shunned. It may be an "echo chamber" and I don't think anyone should exist entirely in an echo chamber, but I think they are valuable to individuals and communities. I have hopped in a conservative group just to look around and it is much worse from my perspective and I think even a neutral third party would agree it's at least just as bad.

I think that rather than fighting against echo chambers, labeling of echo chambers could do a bit to limit trolling behavior and simultaneously encourage people to venture out from those echo chambers to places where we as a larger community can expect them to hold themselves to higher standards of rational, dispassionate discourse about topics they are passionate about.

The only categories I can think of would be: issue, advocacy, support and interest. Interest groups would be expected to remain on topic(memes, jokes, poetry, whatever). Support groups would be held to civility before rationality. Advocacy groups would be a combination of those 2 criteria. Issue groups would be held to rational, dispassionate discourse. Eventually moderation would be expected to keep those groups going that way explicitly, but just labels would be a start and should be a light lift from the technology side. Even if it's not that effective, it might also be a good place to start whatever the broader, better idea is.

DJVJ311 Level 7 May 9, 2018

You came into my group and posted a video just to stir shit up. What did you think we were going to do, then you talk about my group behind my back. Now you're surprised I fired back, don't do that again.

@MikeFlora You fired back? By responding to my comment on the original post? By removing portions of my original comment and posting it for an audience you didn't think I was a member of? Remember when I posted screenshots of idiots in the conservative group talking about posting trolly videos here? Remember me arguing with Lancer in this group? No? Well scroll back and look. Remember when you asked whether you should step down as the host of this group and I had the balls to say screw anonymity and sent you a private message about what I thought were the issues in an attempt to help you keep this group moving towards advocacy?

You sir have not "fired back." You have run to a group you think will simply agree with what you say and are looking for support in an attack against another individual. An echo chamber is not where there are no individual ideas, but where you go to hear that idea reflected by others who are very unlikely to challenge it. It is a wonderfully refreshing thing to have those. They are not the only place where things should be discussed. To discuss your issue with my opinion here is to leverage the worst things about echo chambers. To post it in the group that you think I don't actively read, without tagging me, without contacting me first is to do exactly what that post in the Community Senate group was discussing in the first place. You are sowing divisiveness and attempting to turn the community against an individual. You are doing the worst things that I have given you the benefit of the doubt by not assuming are the sum total of your personality.

Also, you commented on that post in the Community Senate group before I did. I mentioned "your group" by name. I felt it excessive and personal to tag you in that post, but it was in absolutely no way behind your back. I did it in front of a group that I knew you were a member, on a post you had commented on as an invitation to discuss, without explicitly inviting others to discuss your personality and demeanor. My post was about groups in general and I chose this group as an example without demeaning it, as it is a group I actively consume. I get the feeling you thought this post was behind my back because you apparently think a video about a guy shouting to help children while idiots hold him back is somehow a way to troll this group.

I actively read this group. I actively support and defend this group. Yet somehow, I am going to be demeaned in such a way as to call others to judge my character. How would you classify this post and behavior. Tell me that this post or the post about your dad were on topic discussions about gun control. Tell me that this group discusses the issue of gun control and is not just a group used to garner support for the predetermined decision that gun control is necessary and that people need to obey the host. Go on. Tell me.

@DJVJ311 very well said. Lots of thumbs up!!!!


Patton Oswalt said it best about respecting someone's POV:

wowspring Level 6 May 9, 2018

I respect what anyone has to say in a non confrontational and respectful way. At the risk of sounding stupid, I don't know what the term "echo chamber means here". I do not just spout things I have heard elsewhere. My thoughts and opinions about what I believe needs to happen in the gun industry may have been influenced by things I have seen, heard or read, but, to the best of my knowledge, they are MY thoughts and mine alone. If there are other people here who share my stand, then I guess you could say that is a form of support, but is not something I do with intention, it is an outcome of sharing. If I believe strongly enough about something I think should be considered in the gun control discussion then that could be seen as advocacy. How can one talk of an issue, especially one as hot button as this and not have advocacy and support crop up in the process?? It is still an ISSUE we are discussing with a great deal of focus I would say. I think we are getting into semantics here.

Seeker55 Level 8 May 9, 2018

I bring in stuff from other places that are aligned with us, but my mission statement for this group is what I think is wrong, and we're working at how to fix it. What exactly are we supporting that's a bad thing. All the stuff I put in the mission statement I mean to do, only I discovered trying to do it all at the same time is confusing to the point that I think could prevent anything getting done. I went with assault weapons first because it's getting the most innocent people killed.

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