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Has anyone here read

Sex and : How Religion Distorts Sexuality by Darrel Ray?

4nth0ny 4 Apr 5
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4

I haven't read the book, but I think a lot of society's ills could be cured by taking sin out of sex (and money out of politics and religion, but that's another topic for another day). The only "sin" inherent in sex is when sex is used to manipulate, humiliate, hurt, use, force, coerce, or cause another person to have a negative experience.
It also seems wrong to say men should wait for a woman's consent. I say they should wait for an invitation. There's a difference. The former sounds like she's sighing, "Well if you must, you must. Let's just get it over with." The latter sounds like she's saying, "I love you and I want to express that with my body" (or maybe "This will be fun! Let's go!" ). BIG difference.
And yes, I do think a lot of religions have caused a lot of people undue distress, guilt, shame, etc. over a simple biological reality: that any species must have a drive to reproduce or die out. Just a theory, but I think much of that stems from male fear of "doing it wrong," which translates into fear and often even loathing of women as evil temptresses.
How in heck did sex ever get to be equated with something dirty? Or that virginity belongs to the man who "owns" a woman? Body ownership is everything, as it's inextricably tied to personal identity.
Well, that's my two cents.

msum865048 Level 4 Apr 24, 2018

I like your point of view of this topic, and how well you expressed it. Thank you.

1

It's written in Wikipedia that Darrel Ray “takes the stance that many human impulses, feelings and sexual behaviors are normal and can be desirable." No kiddin', Mr. Ray stems from Kansas, right in the Bible Belt. What do these people know about sex? They do it and nine months later a baby ploys out. But there's a lot more to it than that. “It can be desirable.” Indeed, winning the Power Ball Lottery could be desirable also.

My book, Saving Gaia, soon to be released states how the Prime Directive is the most important drive in life and reproduction is a major component. Consider that humans are the only species in all nature's array of fauna that has a full frontal genital display. (Gorillas and chimps are knuckle walkers.) This fact should be enjoyed and even celebrated. Religion would make us ashamed of this fact and many people actually are ashamed of their bodies as if they were somehow at fault.

Julie above brings out a very salient fact. Humans should realize the sublime ecstasy of the sex act and bring it to lofty, even spiritual levels. The ancient Greek poetess Sappho realized this. She wrote mostly for readers who for some reason were denied the wonder and joy of sex. This is definitely erotica rather than pornography. It's praise of Eros, the god of love, rather than Pan, the god of nature.

Since high school days I always had fun and fascination with etymology, the study of word deprivations. The word “pornography” etymologically is “the writings of prostitutes.” To the ladies of the night in most cases sex is a routine way to make money and I'm sure loses some of its delight, mystery and sense of wonder.

Aristopus Level 7 Apr 7, 2018

HI,

Discrediting someone solely because of where they are from is a poor avenue to knowledge. You would have to discredit the majority of Atheists based on this approach. You should have a decent understanding of religion and its deities to write on the topic.

When is the release date? What should I look for?

Anthony

@4nth0ny Quite so. Ever say something that didn't come out right? I know Darrel a long time from the Atheist Nexus and we're still friends. I guess my resentment stems from people getting advanced degrees from religious colleges and claiming to be doctors—like Michelle Bachmann. Actually the God Virus theory is quite sound if you're into memetics.

@Aristopus

He touches on the God Virus in Sex and God. I have been meaning to read it. Maybe I will have to do so sooner than later.

I absolutely agree. There are many quacks that come out of religious institutions. Michelle Bachmann is a perfect example.

Let me know when your book is released.

@4nth0ny

Catch the above video on how a parasite like the God Virus can take over your entire life. It's a little background to memetics as Richard Dawkins and Dan Dennett are great friends.

0

Couldn't be arsed with most modern stuff. I was content to read The Kama Sutra of Vatsyayana. It is a good guide on how to live in harmony,

Petter Level 9 Apr 6, 2018
0

I haven't read the book, but your premise seems sound.

5

I have read it and as a woman, I was disappointed in his sexist views regarding the degradation of women. I realize he's an older man and likely has old fashioned views on the genders, but I took his pro porn stance to be offensive.

In the book, he talks a lot about pornography (the degradation of women for the sexual arousal of the viewer) as being a “sex positive” thing, but not at all about erotica (which celebrates positive healthy sexual love and attraction.) I very much wanted a clarification on this and his opinion.

So, while he was promoting his book, he was invited to speak for the Hawaii Secular Society a few years ago. I couldn't attend, so I wrote him a message, hoping my question could be addressed during his question/answer period. I asked these two questions for his clarification regarding the difference between porn and erotica. He didn't answer me. This is what I asked:

One: Do you feel that there is a difference between pornography and erotica?
Two: Do you feel that pornography actually stems from a misogynistic patriarchal religion?

I went on to quote some authorities on the difference for context. I suppose one person’s erotica can be another’s pornography, as the line is fuzzy. However, the real issue may be what promotes healthy sexuality versus what depicts people as mere disposable sex objects.

What do you all think after reading his book: Do you think pornography actually stems from patriarchal religion, as opposed to erotica which seems to stem from a more egalitarian and secular viewpoint?

Obviously, I'm of the opinion that porn (the degradation of a a person for the sexual arousal of another) stems from patriarchal religion - and erotica (more of a celebration of sexuality) stems from an egalitarian viewpoint.

Julie808 Level 8 Apr 6, 2018

I think that erotica and porn are two different sides of the same coin, some very subtle and others not so much. Both are meant to arouse, one for a female perspective and one for a male perspective. There is some overlap in audience and genre and each borrows from the other.

@Wrytyr Thanks for seeing a difference - I agree there is an overlap in audience - though I'm not sure one genre borrows from the other. Interesting point. I feel the line is anything where a person is being degraded for another's sexual pleasure. I'm just not in agreement with Dr Ray that porn is sex positive - though I would support that erotica is.

Not saying porn should be banned - just having a hard time seeing it as positive and disagree it should be bundled into the rights and causes that secular folks (agnostic/atheist humanist) support as a group. I wish he would clarify if he means all pornography is sex positive in his mind or if there are some degrees that cross the line and the degradation of women for men's pleasure (hetero porn) actually is a carryover from biblical gender views.

Hi Julie, I do plan to respond to this. I just need to make some time to sit behind my computer instead of trying to type this on the phone.

Hi Julie,

While pornography can be used to degrade women, I don't believe your definition of pornography as solely the degradation of women is correct. Pornography is simply the presentation of genitalia for erotic stimulation. Erotica may or may not portray genitals making the line "fuzzy" between the two. In addition to this porn is not solely for men or solely by women. Also, Erotica in any of its many forms can be used for negative purposes. That being said, I did not interpret the authors use of the word porn as meant to be degrading to women.

I don't feel the purpose of this book was to create a pornographic awareness but to make people take a step back and take a deep look at how religion has tarnished sexuality.

I do realize this is another male's perspective,
Anthony

@4nth0ny well this is a thought provoking conversation. Guess I'm looking for this book today. I don't mind most porn..but I agree with @Julie808. I view much of it as degrading to women. And without reading the book...it's quite obvious religions have totally messed up the natural order of things, including and especially our sexuality. Looking forward to the read. Thanks for this post.

@4nth0ny I disagree that pornography is simply "the presentation of genitalia for sexual stimulation" because there often is a face (and person) with that genitalia. We definitely have different definitions, and I'm not likely to get you to understand a woman's point of view regarding the difference of being a sex object (faceless or not) and being a sexual person celebrating sexuality.

There is a nuance which might not be obvious to some who have not been victimized by the sex object mindset I feel has been created by the misogynistic religion many of us were raised with in our youth. Though many of us have given up the belief in the god of that religion, the social imprint is still with us.

0

No but I think I should now.

Wrytyr Level 7 Apr 6, 2018

You absolutely should

0

#Xinsanity

More Xinsanity?

I have no idea what you are referring to.

@4nth0ny follow the hashtag #Xinsanity by pressing on it. Then open up the appropriate post.

1

No. But it does sound interesting. Have you read it?

I have read it. Its a really good book.

0

Not I.

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