@jorj how is she responsible for Trump becoming President? She ran against him.

@Cutiebeauty By underestimating Trump, by encouraging him to run for president, by telling media to prop him up because she thought it would be an easy win, by being 1 of the 2 least liked people in the universe in presidential elections, by not campaigning in crucial states, by rigging the Democratic primary and causing a rift in Democratic voters, and on and on and on.

@Piece2YourPuzzle oh, I see.. so the people who voted for Trump had nothing to do with it? Hmmmm...

@Cutiebeauty Of course people who voted for Trump are a reason why Clinton lost, but why did they vote for Trump? The DNC and Democrats don't seem to be able to criticize Clinton and the DNC for running a horrible campaign and basically shitting on hundreds of thousands of voters in the states where she lost the electoral votes necessary for her to win. I don't agree with the electoral college, but it's what the system is so you have to play within that system to win. I guess Hillary and the DNC didn't care enough or were too arrogant to think they would lose in those states. So yes, Hillary and the DNC were ultimately responsible for their own loss. As a candidate, you're supposed to sell your platform. Surprise surprise, if it relates to the people then you will get more votes. I nor anyone else owes our votes to anyone. Sure as hell not just because another voter wants us to vote for who they want.

Contrary to what you might believe, a lot of people who voted for Trump aren't vile people. They aren't racists. They aren't misogynistic. There are definitely some of his supporters that are, but there was a huge amount of people that voted for Trump for any number of a few reasons including, but not limited to, 1. Being tired of political dynasty families such as the Clintons and Bushes, 2. The shadiness and corruption that Hillary Clinton has shown over the years, 3. Believing Trump's promises about taking down the establishment (whether he was sincere or not) because they knew what they would have gotten with Hillary would have been more establishment agenda, 4. Believing he would make their lives better by saving their jobs in middle United States (ie, coal country). I for one didn't fall for Trump's rhetoric about "draining the swamp", but a lot of people didn't know the extent of his dealings in the past and thought he was sincere. The alternative wasn't good enough for them because of it's past that they knew about. It's not as simple as some of you might believe. People like you and Hillary painted an entire voting bloc as "deplorables" and it only enforced those coal miners etc. to vote for him or swayed people who were on the fence because they saw the generalizations that Hillary threw out. It matters.

In every media scene I saw after the election for like 3 years it was the DNC and Hillary doing nothing but blaming everything else on her loss, just as you seem to be doing here. She blamed it on Russia, misogyny, racism, 3rd parties, Bernie supporters, etc etc etc. Hell, the DNC, Joe Biden, and Hillary AGAIN are already blaming the thought of the Democrats losing again by saying the Russians are trying to interfere with the 2020 election. Hillary even recently accused Tulsi Gabbard and Jill Stein of being Russian assets and how the Russians are grooming them. Stein isn't even running and Gabbard is at like 3% in the polls. Yet people still support someone like Hillary even with her idiotic statements like that. It happens on both sides. Now we have Democrats with Ukrainegate and impeachment. It's not a winning strategy. It's actually rather childish and immature. There are people who see through it, and those people are most likely the independents that will decide the election in 2020. Both sides bases are set in stone pretty much.

Myself? I can't stand either party.

@Piece2YourPuzzle you seem to make a few assumptions about me here... I became interested in politics last year when I joined this community... I didn't vote in the 2016 Trump / Hillary election and I'm certainly not a supporter of either of them.. the conservatives here think I'm a liberal when I haven't even decided what I am yet so I'm basically a centrist atm.
One point though is that I've not heard anything about past presidential elections where the loser is blamed for the winner's victory... Kinda strange it's happening for the first time when a woman runs for president... Seems like she's being blamed for all the mistakes past male presidents made.. just something I've been thinking about...

@Cutiebeauty I didn't assume anything. I used words like "might" and "seem".

Every candidate that loses has blame in their own losing campaign. Do you have proof that it's happening for the first time in history? Hillary lost to Obama before this. People believed Obama's promises and also wanted the first black president. I don't remember that election where Hillary lost being so controversial. 2016 had more controversy around the election. It's completely different. She's being blamed for all the mistakes SHE and her campaign made and her own shady history.

Al Gore was to blame for his own loss. He didn't even win his own state!!!

Plenty of times there have been male candidates that have lost and blamed 3rd parties splitting the votes. Nader? Perot? They both got blamed. Did people like you come to their defense?

When people were blaming Jill Stein for Hillary losing and other male candidates losing, where were all the women coming to her defense? They were nowhere in sight. They were there blaming her too. Did you come to her defense?

@Piece2YourPuzzle might, seem these are words used in making assumptions.. you don't need to actually use the word "assumption" in order to make one... Please don't play semantics with me.. own what you say or don't say it... You also said that people like me and Hilary blah blah blah etc, etc.. that statement alone assumes I'm similar to Hilary...
And if you read and understood my last reply, I said, " I just recently became interested in politics" so asking me where I was when Perot or Gore lost the election is disingenuous of you... I was nowhere... And I told you that... You seem to ignore the written word..

@Cutiebeauty No, they are not. People use "might" or "seem" when they don't know for sure. It's not semantics. An assumption is, "a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof." and the words "might" and "seem" are not words that presume truth or certainty. I also remember your vitriol for voters who didn't support Hillary, and I remember it being YOUR assumption being simply because she is a woman.....just as you're doing here in this topic. I also remember you trying to paint people here as misogynistic when it wasn't even a topic in a matter. I'm sure you will accuse me of mansplaining for showing you the difference between an assumption and words like "might" and "seem" too.

You were around in 2016, weren't you? What about Jill Stein? Did you defend her from the same thing you're talking about for Hillary? You are defending Hillary for it and said you don't support her or Trump and that you didn't even vote in 2016. So then should we assume you defended Stein too? I'm pretty sure your answer is no, but you can tell us so that we don't assume lol

...and I didn't think you were a conservative or liberal. I see you more as non-political.

@Piece2YourPuzzle People use "might" or "seem" when they don't know for sure. It's not semantics. An assumption is, "a thing that is accepted as true or as certain to happen, without proof." and the words "might" and "seem" are not words that presume truth or certainty.
Oh please.. you're talking in circles. Study the boldface of your own words.lol

See attached pic.

A belief that something is true... A belief, meaning no certainty... No truth... Thanks for playing LMAO

@Cutiebeauty I already posted the same definition. In no way does that describe the words I used. You need to go look up the words I used and cross reference them with the definition of assumption to try and understand the difference. I don't know why this is so hard for you to understand. It's simple.

@Piece2YourPuzzle like I said, thanks for playing.. you contradict your own posted definition... All three words mean uncertainty in one way or another but you insist it's different... oh well.. you can lead a horse I suppose but you won't drink.. I guessed you can't admit a woman knows something you don't.. very sad for you.. feel better...

@jorj I agree Hilary relied heavily on being female... But I don't know who this Stein person is so I don't understand any reference to her...

@Cutiebeauty There you go with your bullshit misogyny crap again.

You really are just dumb I see. Fucking hell, please go back to school to know the difference between uncertainty and certainty.

@Piece2YourPuzzle LMAO you funnyman.. you opened the door when you mentioned mansplaining ... Hahahaha you so manly... Not . Can't stand to lose so now your true nature comes out with vulgarity and name calling. But guess what? I'm grown.. call me what you want.. you don't know me. You assuming again. And when you assume, you make an ass out of you and you!! Woohoo .

First off. Trump became president for many reasons dating back to what has expired from at least the Reagan era. This is quite relevant to the purposes of this group! Dating further back to our news arena being slowly taken over by corporations and the intelligence apparatuses, mainly the CIA. I use the word arena because it's a fucking shit show towards forming a delusional reality a vast majority of the population live in, believe in, actually thinking it works, can be trusted, and used to vote from. Spend enough time here, I and a handful of others can put the pieces of evidence together for you. While I do the majority of post here we have a few others that add rather good points and information to help me get this message out.

Not all people in this group understand what we are attempting to communicate. Some of them will never understand, will not give it the time to understand, don't want to understand, or will take a considerable amount of time to understand. Please refrain from attacks on these people with name calling or other negative gestures in which such acts degrade the attempt to educate these people, which can lead to deterring them and others witnessing such to stay interested in our goals. Please show patience by not being the type of people we see in the arena of the establishment political scene! I truly understand some people make it difficult!

Don't know who Jill Stein is!?! dam mit girl you need to spend a lot more time here! There's this 3rd party called the Green Party. I suggest you learn about it! And suggest you vote for people in it. If that peaks an interest in you, I also suggest you look into another party. SEP (Socialist Equality Party). And vote for people in that party also. Which has strong ties to WSWS (World Socialist Web Site) a news site I post from here regularly.