1. Speak for yourself.
2. Who are your heroes?

@Piece2YourPuzzle

1. I am speaking for myself of course (hoping to put some sense into ignorant dickheads)
2. My heroes are every day honest, hard working people who obey the law, pay their bills, pay their taxes, fulfill their personal, family responsibilities and do not support or participate in illegal causes or activities. The examples are teaches at all levels, social workers, hospital workers, sanitation workers, charity workers and soldiers who go to wars and are prepared to do the ultimate sacrifice for the nation. The examples are not movie or TV or sports celebrities, billionaires, religious heads, preachers, life long politicians or their sycophants.

Kapish?

@St-Sinner

1.I am speaking for myself of course (hoping to put some sense into ignorant dickheads)

Over rides your # 2 When many of them, like myself, see Assange as he is. A journalist who put himself out there in harms way to deliver a message we all need to be aware of. Calling a vast number of people dick heads is surely a means to lose any validity to your argument and or opinion in the future. Quite frankly, that's a major reason we have the type of division in our country holding us from solving our real issues. That cavalier domineering approach to bring people together simply creates more strife and is a magnet for useless empty discourse. Although I come close to that line myself at times when attempting to get a point across, I always attempt to keep it from becoming so personal and towards a means to draw in useful debate to exchange opinions. If I referred to people as dick heads as I attempt to draw them to better news sources and the truth to what our government does I'd never get anywhere.

I'll only ask once. Please keep it out of my group and directed at my members.

@William_Mary

You said.....The truth will not be tolerated.

Therefore, I am leaving the group. You cannot handle the truth.

@St-Sinner The “heroes” you identify are all enablers, and your suddenly leaving the group is evidence of your powerlessness.

@yvilletom
Law abiding, tax paying citizens are enablers? How so?

Not necessarily agree with your grouping of these people.

On the other hand, being a law breaker is quite a relative concept. Look at this:
-- one defects from the Soviet Union, law breaker, 25 years of prison sentence

-- the US gives immediate work permit and a green card. Not a law breaker.

Hmmmm

@yvilletom I especially have concerns with "soldiers who go to wars and are prepared to do the ultimate sacrifice for the nation". Now, if he's referring to complying with the need of capitalism to remain and control the worlds monetary system by murder for resources, while spreading fascism, providing a means for the survival of the military complex, I can see his view of hero's in that regard. I on the other hand can not. For the sacrifices he sees as for the nation, I see as murder for the ruling class in which millions in other nations paid the sacrifice. There hasn't been a legitimate war in our part since WWII. And quite honestly, WWI and WWII can be arguably voiced to have been for advancement of the industrial age and military expansion for perpetual warring.

Which by the way is also one of the ideologies I attempt to bring forth through the truth of propaganda which started as late as WWI by Edward Bernays.

Propaganda & Engineering Consent for Empire with Mark Crispin Miller

Edward Bernays

[en.wikipedia.org]

@zesty
We are talking specifically about immigrants on the Southern border who illegally cross borders across land, rivers, valleys, remain undocumented and work in the underground economy.

@St-Sinner

Unfortunately we are all enablers as we currently participate in a system forced upon us without choice. Here's where we are forced to pick our "hero's". While some of us see Assange as a journalist who exposes the truths of why we are such, seeking change, you view him as a law breaker. Meaning the degree of compliance we give is upon us to participate as little as we can in hope to change this in the future.

Maybe you would like to share with us just how you believe he broke the law. There's no proof or evidence of such, or is it stated he did anything to break the law while engaged in his forth estate rights. And he's not a US citizen to even be charged here as such. He simply exposed evidence in our governments wrong doing in which the forth estate was designed for. Evidence that was provided to him from other sources. Not once has it been proven he's broken any laws in introducing his information to the public. Not once has he or WIkileaks had to retract what they have exposed. He pretty much has a spotless record compared to our MSM outlets, that by the way have used his information on numerous occasions. By all rights these entities should be facing the same charges then also, no?

Deno, I sometimes think the world is saying “I won’t let people take a step forward without requiring them to take a step back”, but then I see an effort succeeding.

For instance, our rulers again and again say “our democracy” when they and many of us know we have an oligarchy. But with 18 states having the direct initiative, what we have is less oligarchcal than what we had a century ago. So there is reason to hope.

Another reason I see: from one to four percent of people who are not in prisons qualify as sociopaths, but from 20 to 25 percent of those who are in prisons qualify. We have yet to put Trump in prison, but some of us are trying and might succeed.

@yvilletom I can agree with that, Tom.