I understand that most think the world would be better w/o religion. But, tell me, what would have been better for the first humans who had consciousness? They needed a reason for the wind, tides, sun, etc. They (like everyone) wanted answers. Hence - hello unseen god. How could this have been different?

Yes, we all blame religion for every ill in the world. So we would have to go back to early man and suggest a different method. Do you really think they had other options? I don't. Then we get to the early Middle Ages and beyond when religion controlled everything, even politics. Because the most learned people were usually religious men.

So - let's go back in history. Pretend you can change it. How would you convince early man and beyond that there are other options?

You see, agnostics and atheists are, even in the 21st century, not the norm.

Could you quelch pagan worship? Stop the celebrations of the winter/summer solstices? Hugging trees and their spirits and dancing naked in the moonlight for the sake of the harvest (now that's a religion I could wrap my arms around).

Stop the Inquisition?

We bemoan that we have religion. But men created it because they needed answers.

So, what now? Religion? Atheism? Atheism works in Russia because the people were indoctrinated with it from a very early age. Just like religion here. And, just like us, the average Russian did not question it; just as most of us do not question religion.

I have read the comments. But what I want to know is:

How could mankind's history evolved into atheism instead of religion? We are battling religion NOW because we have the ammunition (science). But.....how could human history evolve so differently that it could avoid religion?

Joanna (always seeking).

I posit that your views on this will change. Those who are nascent atheists are not that different from newly saved Christians. However, unlike them, who have (gladly) given up the ability to reason, you see yourself as liberated - the truth for you is so obvious, how could anyone deny it? And you want to share it! Show others the torch of truth and science. When I was much younger, I took on any Christian, citing science, existentialists, percent of scientists who are atheists (the research done on this varies widely). They just would not believe the facts. Many became very angry. I was always stunned. As I aged, I realized that I could not change anyone's beliefs. Well, had I been a college professor, perhaps.....You will mellow out.

As for religion ruining everything...........................

Do you think Dr. King could have been effective without the religious beliefs of African-Americans? Of course not. Even atheists (comme moi) were moved to tears by his speeches. Belief in salvation and Jesus was pretty much all they had in those days. Gandhi? Alexandr Solzhenitsyn? Nelson Mandela? Mohammed Ali?

I would like to believe that, presented with science and philosophy, everyone could see the truth. But so far, our culture has not encouraged that.

The power of religion: I visited the USSR in 1987, before it exploded. Yes, everyone (except very elderly people) were atheists. Not because they "saw the truth"; they were the USSR equivalent of our Christians. You see, they worshipped Lenin. We visited the town where he was born and grew up (celebrated as Bethlehem is in Israel - been there, also). They grew up as atheists and would never think to question it. Perhaps this seems ideal to you. But it's no different than US kids growing up as catholics, baptists, etc. It takes a particular type of intelligence to question the beliefs of family, community, and government. And the USSR is no more "blessed" with these minds than we are. In fact, I discussed this with several Russians. I told them that I was an atheist (cheers all 'round), but they worshipped Lenin the way the US worships Jesus. They did not disagree. But, for them, Lenin worship was OK because he was a real person and Jesus wasn't.

I fear I may have gotten off track (a good bottle of pinot noir - every bit as worthy of worship as the bible, IMHO) may have influenced this lengthy comment.

Bottomline, @dogpound9, no, I don't believe that religion poisons everything - maybe only 95%.

Chin up: [fivethirtyeight.com]
Of course, after Nate's prediction of the election.....................

Joanna

I will reply further when my home internet is restored. Now at Starbucks.

I love Xmas carols, and this is all you need to hear:

I think it does to a degree. I will break it down exsplaining why. It poisons everything because how it separates people. Loving homes are broken up because of religion. Children grow up traumatized because of religion. Religion causes war and religion keeps people stagnate, by keeping them stuck in the Bronze Age because thy are against education and science and anything that poses a threat to their delusions. Thanks to religion, people has died for what they believed in because they swore up and down they’d get a better afterlife and it is a very possibility these place don’t exist and they could have gone on to continue life on earth to make the best of this life here, without being bothered by all the stupid nonsense. Getting on with why to a degree I think religion is alright. I think the people that think their loved ones has gone on to a better life is what is keeping some people together and not losing their mind completely. Since death can be a hard thing to swallow, many people would have went insane by the tragedies. But I do also think religion robs us of our ability to be able to cope with something as natrual as death. That’s not really just dealing with it at all. It is simply pawning their death off on some supernatural place in the Universe, instead of an important fact that life comes to a natrual end.