he's sharing his experience, living in a muslim country

what is RSV?

@crazycurlz Revised Standard Version

@Dwight Hm...revised is the King James Version of the New Testament then?

@crazycurlz just language changes, story still the same in both. Versions.

@Dwight apparently you are right. And I also agree with your warnings about broad generalizations. However, there is a real and apparent danger in the militarism that's fomenting in many muslim countries.

@crazycurlz looked at the USA lately? Plus Trump will have it all on display in November...

And he is not fluent in English, but he is trying !

@Hebert54 The point is, labeling any group as he is doing diminishes our ability to treat them as individual human beings, on their merits. " agnostics are wishy-washy"...same thing!

@Kbdank71 horsefeathers! I care, and say so frequently! Labeling, grouping etc., is not good for anyone, especially the people who do it!

@Kbdank71, @Hebert54 "wishy-washy": I could have chosen a nasty adjective, it wanted to stay on point, not start a side arguement!

@Hebert54 Islam is a Religion. Muslim is a racial designation.

@Hebert54 In the minds of lovely people like White Supremacists, and our Orange Idiot, and this poster, obviously. Why are You getting in such a lather?

@Hebert54 wow,never my potus......what a nasty comment to drag in to a discussion of labeling...oh, wait....

@Hebert54 Did I not just say "Never my potus?" You could also try listening to others....oh, wait.......

@Hebert54
Everyone here has got it wrong. The person making the post is a Pakistani who does not speak english well and is trying to express his views as best he can ? Instead of you trying to help him, you ard all fighting amoungst yourself trying to make yourselves heard.. Stop it and show somd compassion for the young man ?

@VAL3941 Val, I appreciate your post for humanity's sake, but the OE's post is too full of blanket bias & vilification to be allowed to stand unchallenged.

@AnneWimsey
Thats your choice to decide ? It is very difficult to get your point across if you have problems with the language ? Did you see his follow up post ? If not I think you should refer to it before you carry on like you are in this one ?

Crazy, I respect your reserve and understanding.

well, thanks, Pal.

Oh dear - just seen you are from Pakistan. Yes. In this case Islam is a problem. But it is tangled into the cycle of poverty and politics. I do feel sorry for you. In England most Muslims are moderate and modern and don’t take the Koran literally. Also in Morocco they have Muslims, Jews and Christians living side by side, no problem. I am
Sorry for your experience in Pakistan- it’s dangerous for you. ?

Keep safe.

@Agnostic88
Poverty means less education and more literal interpretations of the Koran. Politics means that people are manipulated into hating each other and groups like the Taliban are left to their own devices. In Saudi Arabia there is poverty, especially for foreigner workers from India, or Arabs from other countries. Also there are tribal regions that the Al Saud’s hate, so they keep them impoverished.
I do understand- I have a long personal history of Islam, for better or worse.

@Agnostic88, @Bobby9 I think the Old Testament promotes war against its enemies @Bobby9, no? And some pretty harsh punishments like stoning. And what did Christians do in the Crusades - they used the literal interpretations of “fight the good fight” - which Christianity shares with Islam, as it means the same as Jihad. I studied this for a while doing comparative religion at university. And as for Islamaphobia- when were you last spat on for wearing hijab?

@Bobby9 good post. There's a book called " The trouble with Islam ." By Irjan Manji (e excuse my spelling) . She is a Moslem and a woman and she critiques Islam. It's a good insight into the stumbling blocks in Islam. Unlike Judaism and Christianity and others, Islam has no reform branch.

@Tommy19 interesting...Islam has no reform branch. Hadn't thought of that

@crazycurlz, @Tommy19 Yes, they actually do. And there are denominations.

@crazycurlz, @Tommy19 The main problem is Wahhabism, and guess what? That was the reformist movement along the lines of how right wing Evangelicals are reforming Christianity in America. Reform doesn’t mean liberal and it doesn’t mean progressive. It means reform.

@Livia so not reform in the traditional sense 'enlightened' as in 'reformation'. this is one very tough, militant religion over all.

@crazycurlz Islam did not become militant nor interpret the Koran literally until after the Second World War. Wahhabism was a Saudi thing it was resisted by Sunnis and Shias who thought they were nuts. The Brits and Yanks financed its growth because of petroleum. Look at this -

@Livia what is the reform sect of Islam called? I'm only aware of Sunni, Shiite and Sufi. I took World Religions at Uni and that's all they show in the texts I studied. Cheers.

@Livia Thank you for sharing. I will be back when I have time to really consider what you're saying...so much to consider.

@Tommy19 as I mentioned, reform simply means change. Because there are progressive reform churches and synagogues people assume that “reform” is a progressive form of change. Well in the UK, our biggest religious reform came after the reformation in the form of Puritans. They were an ultra conservative reform of both Christianity and the UK. In Islam it is the same. The reform sect are the Salafis/Wahhabists that really grew in Saudi Arabia. More recently, due to Western bombing of relatively religiously liberal countries (Iraq, Libya and Syria were a mix of sunni, Shia and Christian. Those institutions were secular to prevent tribalism and religious sectarianism ) Yes, it’s amazing right? They had a form of secularism! And we bombed them!
Wahhabism, which means “Puritan”, has become popular as it is seen as a liberation theology against Western aggression. So - the Islamic reform movement today is conservative and strident and it is a threat, because the Western interference, on behalf of the Saudis, has let this reform movement grow, in the vacuums of current Iraq, Syria and Libya. There is a direct relationship between US and UK bombing and the popularity of Wahhabism However, we must get it out of our minds that every veiled woman or man in a white dress with a beard is a Wahhab looking to bomb is. It’s generalizing. We have no idea what sect they are by looking at them, or know how they treat others, or what they go through on a daily basis, or anything about them. It’s wrong to judge people on mass like that, and that kind of labeling and hostility is the same process that made made Hitlers’ Germany.
Anyhoo...that’s my take! - Wahhabism or Salafi is the unpleasant reform movement.