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The fact that there is a god, is incontrovertible. There was a force that created the universe. Scientists call god The Big Bang. The question should is god sentient, or not, or both. Thoughts?

Dreegle 4 Jan 14
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Err... The big crush... you know... the other bit of the theoretical big bang... Would that be the creation to create itself thing that you languish within? Matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only change form. So, something must always have been... but in what form? And at some point, all matter MUST have been energy, and all energy, well, something else, and when it was something else, whatever made the universe what it is, became god.

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Err... The big crush... you know... the other bit of the theoretical big bang... Would that be the creation to create itself thing that you languish within? Matter and energy can neither be created nor destroyed, it can only change form. So, something must always have been... but in what form? And at some point, all matter MUST have been energy, and all energy, well, something else, and when it was something else, whatever made the universe what it is, became god.

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Your “logic” is completely flawed. You can apply this to literally anything and it makes just as much sense. You’re just playing with words and definitions.

Am I? So you can sit there, entirely within your own layer of the multiverse, completely isolated from every other living thing, by your own perceptions, and can come up with no rational opinion, other than that which you've been taught, and your comment is on the wording, of an attempt to convey a rational observation. Ok... lol... still learning my way around here ????????????

It was a poor attempt...

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"god" is probably the most loosely defined word ever invented, if you want to define the big bang as god, sure, I believe in that, but it makes the word fairly useless because I see no reason to think the big bang was intelligent, sentient, intending, etc, when the vast majority of people define "god" as all those things.

Probability and statistics govern the big bang... laws of physics and science. The aslect of "god" that makes our existence possible, is governed by random occurrence... but in a flat universe there is neither random, nor singular events. If it happens once, then it happens an infinite amount of times... it's the nature of an infinite universe... with infinite time and space at its' disposal, anything and everything is happening right now. My premise is god is sentient, and not, and both, because it is a statistical posdibility... Everything is. The universe is flat.

The universe has an age, it is not in any sense infinite.
Looking backwards, the laws of physics break down before you get to the big bang, so they don't govern the big bang.
Since we do exist in a universe with physical laws, that the laws of logic are based on, such as the law of non contradiction, something cannot be sentient ,and not, and both.

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I'm talkingGod, as the common entity amongst all religions. The divider of space as a sentient force, or the random collision of energy that sparked the creatiin of the flat universe, that by the very definitiin of infinity must have every conceivable concept occurring in it... Random creation, or sentient manipulation? We could just be a single cell, in a test tube, or the entire universe is there solely for us to observe... However, infinte space and time would allow an infinite amount of ways for our existence to end this second ,and an infinite amount of it to not... but a fifty fifty chance each instant that may spell extinction, is statistically going to happen every two instants... Which points to some degree of setience...

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If you mean by incontrovertible that it's axiomatic as in self-evident , well it all depends who's looking. I've looked and seen no evidence.

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If you mean GOD. as in G. O. D. Greatest of Deities. No. there isn't one. I've come to this conclusion because I've asked around 🙂

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Okay, you got my attention, now where is the proof?

My proof is the negligible probability of our continued existence...

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Semantics.

godef Level 7 Jan 14, 2018

As is your faith in your disbelief. Science dictates that conclusions must be drawn from interpretation of data. Upon that interpretation, the most likely cause is usually accepted. This is recognised as a "theory" and peer reviewed. There is no facts in science. A single accepted misinterpretation becomes a theoretical principle. Based upon the evidence, the big bang is the most likely cause of the creation of the universe. That is our BELIEF. There is no conclusive data. Scientists have faith in their findings, knowing that there is no such thing as a definite measurement, there are always higher and lower increments. That is an example of non sentient god doing its' thing.

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I can say yag or kij exists, but we haven't defined them. To say god exists but to then say we must argue about the definition is equally meaningful. Sentience is more than an arbitrary trait like whether god has a big foot and closer to a defining factor like saying god is bigfoot.

Sentience is the capacity to learn, to evolve your thinking, to feel emotion... A computer is not sentient... a sheep is.

@Dreegle [merriam-webster.com] ... But that definition aside, you haven't responded to my actual point that you must define god as a prerequisite to saying such a thing exists.

@DJVJ311 I'm defining "god" as being sentient, not or both. Something created the universe... lets call it "god" (or whatever name you want). There are people that believe in non sentient god. Scientists, realists etc follow the anthropic principle, believe in the random collision of energy sparked the creation of matter, and our universe etc. Then there are people that believe god is just hanging around zapping miracles and finding their car keys. That is their perception, and very much a part of their individual unique life experience, and reality... I'm saying, that there is an equal likelihood that there is both.

@Dreegle And something created the thing that created the thing that created the big bang ad infinitum? If you want to assert as fact that there exists an abstract precursor at the ultimate end of the causal chain, I suppose you can assert that as a hypothesis. Labeling that abstract notion "god" is arbitrary and does not convey half of what the word means in normal conversation, so it seems mislabeled.

Also, the assertion that even an abstract precursor is necessary is not falsifiable claim, so it cannot be proven or disproved and only accepted on faith and is therefore not incontrovertible. Unless you have some experimental or even logical way of approaching a proof for the origin of the universe, the statement is disputable.

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