It’s obvious that minorities and women have been and still are discriminated against. The way that they have been treated throughout history is disgraceful.
Now this is where I say ‘however’...
However, the advancement of women’s rights, LGBT rights and the rights of any minority group should not come at the expense of white people, men and freedom of speech. It’s not racist or sexist to say this.
When I hear about a mentally ill kid being tortured because he was a white Trump supporter or when I hear about a college that throws a shit fit when not everyone supports their ‘no white people’ day or when I hear about people trying to ban Father’s Day or when I hear about two individuals losing their jobs because they told a sex joke privately to each other that some nosy person overheard or when I personally witness a man being assaulted by a girl who says to him ‘what are you going to do? Hit a woman?’ or when I hear about a white guy with dreadlocks being harassed for ‘cultural appropriation’ I start to see why some people support men’s rights or say ‘all lives matter’ or put up signs that say ‘it’s okay to be white’.
It’s not racist or sexist to be consistent with principle. If I see discrimination against a black person or a woman, I’m against that. And if I see discrimination against a white person or a man, I’m against that too. If that makes me a sexist and a racist then I guess a lot of levelheaded people are racists and sexists.
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9 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Hey! It's not a pie. If someone gains rights, you haven't lost yours. And yes, your comment is both racist and sexist. There will be 122+ women of various colors and orientations in the next House. Men haven't done such a great job. Let us let them give it a try.
Grayghost
Level 6
Nov 29, 2018
0
You, the oppressor, have been screwing with our rights and freedoms since the dawn of MAN and now that we have had enough and SAY so...you privileged white boys whine and whine and whine about how badly YOU are being treated...absolutely absurd...and quite amusing at the same time. Your reign of terror is over dear...oppressors never give up their power easily...it must be taken from you...and you no likey!
Xena
Level 6
Nov 27, 2018
2
Let me preface this by saying I'm a white male.
I'm really not worried about white people right now. I really don't think that a small number of white people losing their jobs over some racist jokes, is really equivalent to black people being shot by police or women being afraid to come forward after being raped because of the way they're treated accusing their rapist.
But you fight the good fight, making sure white people are protected. Hey while we're at it let's make sure mosquitoes don't go extinct, other species might be closer but why prioritize?
mattersauce
Level 7
Nov 27, 2018
6
First of all, good for you for wanting to treat people equally and recognizing the backlash at what appears to be white people and particularly white men....
However....
I think you are confusing discrimination as defined by law with racism and sexism.
Discrimination is the outward denying of certain things like equal pay, equal access, etc. as defined in the Civil Rights Act. It protects all of us from being unfairly treated. Protecting those who are discriminated against is not at the expense of anyone...a white person, a woman, a black man...all are covered.
Racism and sexism on the other hand, are based on emotions, mostly fear and hate; and ignorance, not having had direct experience with those who are of different races, religions, sexes, etc. or taking time to learn about them.
For every one of those things you mentioned, which is horrific, just multiply it every single day for years and years by every single person in a protected class...is it fair, right? No...but minimal in comparison. I would never justify the comparison nor would I say it is just a taste of one's own medicine. We agree there. It is all terrible. But all of those things are a direct result of people just not taking it any more. and are truly carried out by the minority of people and is not as commonplace as the reversal. The numbers speak for themselves.
I hope your outrage is as passionate when others list the centuries of things done to others by whites...it is a longer list.
thinktwice
Level 8
Nov 27, 2018
5
@Veteran229 I do believe the poster is talking about American racism and sexism. As well, all of the incidents he mentioned are behavioral. White people can change their behavior in each one of those things he mentioned...racism and sexism target things that cannot be changed: skin color, sex, sexual preferences.
@Veteran229 I totally agree that much of what is deemed "privileged" is based more on economics than actual race, gender, etc. Your anecdotal story has been proven statistically by economists and social scientists to be true...it is easier to blame racial or sexual inequality than to address the more complex issues of having enough food, shelter, etc.
However, the poster cited incidents that had nothing to do with economics...all of those incidents and the ones others have posted are based on fear, hatred, and ignorance.
@Veteran229 I think you hit on an important point that could help draw people from all sides together. Morality. Morality can be affected by economics...people committing crimes due to desperation, but for the most part, even the worst conditions will not entice a moral person to commit a crime...crime among the homeless is low or petty...and as you said, people with all economic advantage will still commit white collar crimes because of their morality. Rape is committed by all levels of economic status, with higher levels being at the upper echelons of advantage/privilege.
So what is the solution to close the divide? With a leader who appears to have no moral compass, how do we inspire people of all races, genders, sexes, etc. to be moral? Laws are in place and are ignored; bad laws are not being changed...churches and other places of worship have lost their enticement and teach a morality that is repugnant to many (like us)...
@Veteran229 The most visible people are those in the public eye that serve the public...or are suppose to...this downward trend in morality is not just this administration...I agree that the media has fueled this by the constant barrage of information...remember when we had three news outlets and most people read their news via magazines or newspapers...so, part of the solution is to be selective in your news feed and turn off social media for most of the day...? Can we be too" informed " to the point of stupidity? I think so...
@Veteran229 Faux News does enough of that...and I have seen BBC, NPR, and many other outlets show the facts for both parties...but people don't see it if they only watch their own biased news outlets...I would venture to say that most intelligent people get their news from multiple sources just to get better balance
@Veteran229 You asserted above that race should not be a factor in our decision-making process...so, did it matter what his race was? It was his behavior and his reason...he was an immoral person who wanted to make his point using fear to attack democrats...let's start leaving race out of the stories...bad behaviors are bad behaviors...behaviors are choices, race is not...
@Veteran229 On all sides of the political spectrum...
@Veteran229 You have made it clear to at least me that you are not applying it to any specific politcal group directly...I just wanted to make it clear to others who might be reading our posts, assuming they read it with no bias into either one of us...you, obviously being more to the right of the spectrum and me to the left...we appear to have some things in common...how awful... 
.
As a highly privileged individual (white, anglo, heterosexual, male, middle class, upwardly mobile, educated, reasonably neurotypical, not disabled, etc etc) I don't see equal rights coming at my expense as it's not a zero-sum game. I see some of your examples as examples of people being asshats by pretending its a zero-sum game, but not as some sort of existential threat. I see some of them as making me more aware of my privilege and how it effects others, which is generally a good thing and I don't feel the need to give up my identity, just maybe some of my misbeliefs.
We white dudes are in no way threatened by women or minorities getting on a more equal footing.
If I chose to wear dreadlocks for some reason it'd be my right to do so, but I'd have to accept that it will be seen as "appropriation" by some and whether or not I agree with it being a valid criticism, I'll get some nonzero pushback around it. Maybe dreads aren't worth the trouble. If not ... it's hardly a Greek tragedy. I make six figures, am debt free, and reasonably healthy and have lots of options. If dreads are denied me, I think I can handle that I think I could even understand why someone experiencing all sorts of systemic discrimination would want to just be allowed a few of their own symbols and labels and signifiers to be used in their own way at their own discretion.
Is it even possible for a white man to be discriminated against in anything like the ways a black man is? Not in any general case. It never crossed my mother's mind, for example, that I'd even be likely to be stopped by police, much less to have to school me in how to walk on eggshells when stopped or accosted, so they won't shoot me. But it's top-of-mind for lots of black mothers. So reverse discrimination is a really specious claim in the face of that.
Yes you could call a particular thing reverse discrimination against me in some technical sense I suppose but I'd rather be happy than "right" in that event. We've done egregious things since forever to certain groups, and as a nation we've never really gone through any overt acknowledgment and reconciliation process about it. Also, the process is ongoing. Just because slavery and Jim Crow have ended doesn't mean "problem solved". There's still mass incarceration that rests in a massively disproportionate way on minorities, there's still voter suppression that tends to be particularly and deliberately directed at them, there's still the cycle of poverty. And then we wonder why people are hypersensitive around these issues.
Shutting up and really listening is actually the best response for us at this point. I'm more than willing to do so.
mordant
Level 8
Nov 27, 2018
7
I hope Mrs. Mordant doesn't mind if I say I think I love you
Well said @Mordant.
"Racism is the lowest, most crudely primitive form of collectivism. It is the notion of ascribing moral, social or political significance to a man’s genetic lineage—the notion that a man’s intellectual and characterological traits are produced and transmitted by his internal body chemistry. Which means, in practice, that a man is to be judged, not by his own character and actions, but by the characters and actions of a collective of ancestors." Ayn Rand
We are each individuals and should be judged by our own actions, not those of any collective.
sfvpool
Level 7
Nov 27, 2018
2
I often disagree with Rand but in this case she's hit the nail on the head.
The hypocrisy in her beliefs is astounding.
@Piece2YourPuzzle What hypocrisy?
@sfvpool Rand doesn't ascribe a man's moral, social, or political significance to a man's genetic lineage or as a collective? She doesn't judge all those that don't ascribe to her theory of Objectivism? She didn't judge poor people or non-giants of industry or economic creation as a collective in denouncing them in general? Of course she did! That's ALL she did! Plus, she was basically a cult leader and promoting an ideology and telling her subjects to ascribe to her way of thinking as the supreme way of thinking. That is against individualism in the purest sense! How is following absolutism anywhere near being an individualist? She promotes one way and only one way. Where is the room to be flexible as an "individual" with that? Her philosophy is inherently flawed. Like I said before though, I'm sure if people take some aspects from her philosophy then it can be a good thing, and I don't assume all the followers of her philosophy are malevolent either. Just want to point that out.
@Piece2YourPuzzle Having read probably most of what Ayn Rand has written, I have never read anything close to her stating that she ascribed significance to someone's genetic lineage. Where did you get that?
Judging those who don't ascribe to her philosophy? Some people, not all.
Judging poor people or non-giants of industry as a collective and denouncing them. Not at all. She certainly venerated some giants of industry, but didn't denounce those who were not.
A cult leader? She advocated reason and independent thinking. Some people may have "worshiped" her, but that is not what she wanted.
She promotes one way and only one way? Yes, and after studying her philosophy, I agree with her. Just as I agree with Isaac Newton's physics within the limits that it applies. I see her philosophy as a rational, scientific, guide to thinking and reaching decisions. Haven't most philosophers thought that their way was the only way?
Where is the room to be flexible as an "individual?" Be flexible about what? Her philosophy is a method, which I have studied, questioned and have decided to follow. There is no penalty if I don't follow it, except reality and my life.
Have you read any of her writing first hand or seen video interviews of her? From what I've observed, she had no problem with anyone who disagreed with her, as long as it was an honest disagreement.
Her philosophy is inherently flawed? I disagree. You have only attacked her, as a person, and some of what her detractors have said about her philosophy. So where are the flaws?
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