@darien75 That's why I like it. Everyone is a human, that's the part that is the most important. Someone's gender isn't nearly as important as the fact that they're human and until they open their mouths and prove otherwise, they deserve basic respect.

@darien75 I can't help it if you hate humans.

@darien75 Ok where to start? America is an has always been an extension of its European imperialistic roots so somebody will always be under our heel.
Whether it be the native peoples, Africans, Irish, jews, catholics, unionist, women, gays and hopefully you get where this is going by now.

So anyway why would or should it for that matter be any easier for those who are trying to stake their claim for mutual equality within the American society. And you can’t say that it’s all the white conservatives fault because we have racism and bigotry throughout our whole society and until you’ve lived or worked directly around it you might think that it isn’t there.

We all want to have everything for ourselves including recognition and whenever a new group of people show up the rest tend to naturally see them as being competition for what they feel is theirs.

And finally something that I wish that everyone would learn to do.
And that is take trump’s name out your vocabulary he’s an egomaniacal manic that HRC used to clear the republican field and she apparently forgot just how self absorbed he was.

And no matter how much of he supported her in 2008 he now was sadly per her instructions the pied piper candidate who at one point was actually getting tired of hearing his own name.

Nah I’m just fucking with ya he believes that every time says his name an older porn star gets more attractive.
And as far his followers go. Everyone forgets that he’s read mein kampf and Hitler said to seek out those who feel abandoned and powerless and to give them a voice.
Soooo guess what we have a whole segment of society that “ personally “ FEELS as though they’re powerless and have been abandoned by our government.

Couple that with the new liberal ideology of conform or else ( I actually posted a video by Van Jones from CNN about just that ) and you have people at least have the illusion of being in control.

So yeah they’re going to just as I would if told to kneel and conform I’d refuse and resist even if it does hurt me.
But maybe one day we’ll learn that we all live here and that no ones gotta leave or fall in line and we’ll become more tolerant and maybe accepting of each other’s faults

@darien75 . . .There is no right to be addressed as one wishes. Just as there is no right to not be offended. Although this is the implication of canada's laws for forced speech and human rights tribunals, which increasingly side with the hurt feelings of the religious. (Not what we want, correct?)

Societies work best when we all are aware of and seek to help all to be included. To not not be polite fur shur is not conducive to doing our best.

YET::: We have only been really learning how to live in free societies for 200 years. And the concepts of freedom of choice, equal rights, no religion, are still young. And are under attack everywhere on the planet. Liberty is an unknown concept for the majority of humans on the planet.

The definition of the word "gender" changed only 50 years ago.

We are all struggling to keep up with just getting dinner on the table. And with all the thousands of scientific discoveries made every day. To react to and adjust to all the new rules is daunting at best.

I am all for polite. But to condemn anyone for not being able to behave according to rules created yesterday is naive at best. As with the shit in canada and the EU, it becomes clearly dangerous when inscribed in law.

I remember the transition to using "Ms" as the default. And there are those still not doing this. And outside of western democracies, there are many places you and i would be stoned for even talking about this.

So, even with the little perceived progress we have made, I am hopeful, but patient.

@darien75 ... bad summarizing. But sorta. There is no RIGHT to demand special treatment.

This does not mean i do not think it best to treat each other with basic human recognition.

Please, reread my comments as supportive of you basic premise.

And also be clear, that i oppose compulsive speech for all issues. For such requirements can only be disastrous.

@darien75 How does the issue come up, though? It is not like I would normally speak to someone, regardless of their preferred gender, and address them with a pronoun. If I spoke to you for the first time, I normally wouldn't address you with a gender pronoun. Or, take this forum discussion, I have seen no need to use a gender pronoun in our discussion.

@darien75 You have still not answered my question, "How does the issue come up?"

@darien75 Thanks for answering my question.

To answer your question, "Is it really a lot to ask from everyone to show a gesture of kindness to any transgende​r person by using the pronouns that they prefer?" No, it is not a lot to ask. But, unless it comes up for me, which it hasn't, how would I know what pronoun the person prefers? And, let's say you're writing about or talking about a transgender person, what pronoun do you use, if you don't know their preference? And, is it grammatically correct to use the pronoun the person prefers?

@darien75 I hear jokes from people about transgender people, in fact I heard someone laughing the other night at a couple whose gender was not obvious. It doesn't bother me, though, because I realize that this issue is one that has only recently become an issue, and it takes people a long time to change. And, until it becomes an issue for them, they usually don't think it through. In fact, I'm not finished thinking it through.

@darien75 There is no doubt that it has been an “issue” since the beginning if civilization — think of the ancient Greeks. But, in the US, it has only recently become a big issue in the news. And, only recently has the issue of gender pronouns come up, as far as I know.

@darien75 Caitlyn Jenner (formerly Bruce Jenner) is her name. I think the fact that the issue has arisen is a good thing, in many respects. I've never had a problem with transgender people and have always thought it strange that others did. I do think it's a problem to try to make it illegal to address someone by a gender different from their preference, though.

@darien75 gender is an identifier only used for the ability to determine ability to mate any other use is sexist. To infer a man is not a man simply because he chooses to wear a dress or a women is not a women because she likes her hair short and machines is SEXIST. Your ignorance is deceitful and preys on the kindness.

@OwlInASack Freedom of speech applies to everyone. That in part means I get to say what I like and so do you. That's how it works. The fact you tried to label it as a "White Majority" one makes you not just ignorant but racist (p.s. I'm not white)
While people with gender disphoria have a genuine mental illness and as a result suffer extremly high levels of depression and suicide. That level of depression and suicide doesnt decline even after reassignment surgery or being lovingly accepted. (Second p.s. I think you can dress and do anything you want to your body, I'll treat you with the same respect and kindness as I would my neighbor)

As far as triggered you were so. I was right. You saw ex military boom triggered. Didn't even bother to understand the point being made only that I should pretend to placate to your declarations of pronouns.

I would ask you the same question you asked me have you ever? I would guess not. My opinion changes as I gain more knowledge. Have you ever even considered the plight of others or only your own selfish intetests?

@darien75 Lets get into the weeds shall we.
Your opinion is a spectrum exists while binary is archaic and outdated.
Your opinion essentially says you are less of a woman or less of a man if you don't conform to these rules. Here's a diagram of how much less of the given gender you are.( spectrum was invented by an uneducated person who suffered from gender disphoria)

My opinion gender is a biological product only useful for reproduction. Your behaviour, dress, likes, dislikes, and sexuality don't make you any less of a Man or Woman if they aren't in the normative range.

Which one seems more sexist. I'll give you a hint. It's the one that cares to label activities and behaviour as masculine or feminine.

@darien75 I'm clever enough to actually read what people write and not assume what they mean

@darien75 and not disagreeing what I am saying is that it shouldn't be a legal requirement as then there are no leways to make mistakes . Not only that what is so wrong about people making mistakes I couldn't give a toss if someone calls me a woman it's only a word

@darien75 what about the other 72 genders ? Are they just as easy ?

@darien75 11 dimensions what the fuck are you smoking ???

@darien75 going straight to abusing and throwing a tantrum is what toddlers so have fun in your playground...

@darien75 i have asked reasonable questions and you haven't answered any just jumped into assumptions and name caloing . You are far from intelligent and grown up just a very inflated ego