Why Democrats haven’t given in to Trump on government shut down and what is actually at stake.
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The wall would not really be all that effective in preventing illegal immigration. Over two thirds of illegal immigrants came here legally and just over stayed their visas. Trump himself once said the wall could be defeated by a rope, and another time said it could be defeated by a ladder, and Trump has been shown tunnels going under existing sections of border walls. Democrats think there are much better and more cost effective ways to spend the money to protect our borders than on an expensive wall which won’t work.
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Trump’s strategy of closing down the government until he gets exactly what he wants is like holding the government hostage. It is a form of extortion. If Democrats give in on this, then the strategy will be used over and over again by Trump and future presidents to undermine control of the purse, which the constitution says is controlled by congress.
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We have already had the powers of congress, as defined in the constitution, eroded when it comes to declarations of war or use of the military. When the preside3nt was made “Commander In Chief” of the armed forces, the U.S. had no standing armed forces. Defense of the country was done solely with state militias called up in times of war. So, commander in Chief was a position intended only for in times of war. When the military converted from state militias to a federal standing army after the Civil War, the title Commander in Chief” was not changed as it should have been. So, now in peace time, a president can order military actions without the declaration of war that was formerly required by the congress. That means the balance of powers designed by the founding fathers shifted from the congressional branch of the government to the Executive branch of the government. The actions of Trump, is an attempt to further shift the glance of powers (in this case the power of the purse) further away from the congress and more to the Executive branch, making the power of the president much greater. Meaning one bad president could do a lot of damage (to the nation) very quickly, because his powers would to be balanced out by the other branches of government.
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4 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Even so, Trump isn't doing this alone. He'd be lost without McConnell. Let's face it, Trump has not vetoed an appropriations bill, so he technically is not to blame.
It's McConnell who is somehow holding up votes on that legislation, as I keep hearing. But I have yet to hear or read how he's doing it, and how/if some majority of senators can override him. If you know, please share.
bingst
Level 8
Jan 22, 2019
2
Yes, I was thinking about mcConnell this morning and how since he refruses to brign bills to the Senate floor which Trump hasn't per-approved, he has moved the Senate from beign an independent body to beign an extension of the Executive branch of government.
The truth is that the cost of the wall and the wall itself is completely irrelevant. The cost is a tiny drop in the overall budget of this country and they could have easily passed the funding of it any time in the past 2 years. They know a wall is not any kind of solution to illegal immigration and that illegal immigration is not that big of an issue anyway; they want to distract us all form seeing what they are really up to. This is a political power play and a distraction technique plain and simple.
Medusa
Level 4
Jan 22, 2019
2
% billion dollars may not sound like a large part of our budget, but it could be used for the VA, food stamps, medicaid, real twenty first century methods to protect the border. One hundred dollars might not be a large part of your budget, so take a hundred dollar bill and flush it down the toilet. It would be the same as spending five billion on a wall.
@Sticks48 5 billion dollars is approximately .11% of the overall 4.4 trillion dollar budget. While I agree that the money could be much better spent, my point is that the amount of money is not really the issue. The VA, food stamps etc. aren't funded the way they should be because we don't demand it by electing people who will stand up for those programs (we have largely elected people in the pocket of corporations and banks since Reagan), not because they are large expenses in the scheme of the entire national budget.
@Sticks48 I don’t think I advocated for building the wall in any way. I was making a point about why Trump and his gang are making a big deal about it (far out of proportion to its actual cost or legitimacy), not about how the money they want for it should be spent instead. I did not say that 5 billion dollars isn’t a lot of money, I said it was a small portion of the overall budget, which is true. Because it is a relatively small portion of the budget they could have easily passed it in the last 2 years had they really wanted to. The salient point is that all this ruckus about the wall is not REALLY about building a wall at all, it’s about keeping us distracted (e.g. talking about the cost, pros and cons, etc. of the wall) while they do much worse things behind the scenes and, frankly, it seems to be working.
You are correct. If they ge the wall they can claim victory, but if they keep distracting they get a huge sllent victory.
When you create chaos, you can get away with a lot of things which can/will get lost int eh confusion.
What a cruddy negotiator he is...what idiot would take a deal to build a permanent wall in exchange for temporary protection of DACA?
How about a chain link fence, Donald?
Negotiators don't threaten either...he sent Nancy Pelosi a warning like he could start to process the kids out of the country...that will only bolster her resolve more...as well as all of her colleagues...
The guy can't brag himself out of a paperbag anymore...he has shown his hand and it is....tiny...lol...well, except for the photoshopped ones...seriously?
thinktwice
Level 8
Jan 22, 2019
2
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