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"Rousseauians say we are a naturally peaceful species corrupted by society. Hobbesians see us as a naturally violent species civilized by society. Both perspectives make sense. To say that we are both “naturally peaceful” and “naturally violent,” however, can seem contradictory. The paradox is resolved if we recognize that human nature is a chimera."

"The great problem with the purest Rousseauian visions is that they are easily interpreted as implying that a state of anarchy would be peaceful. Take away capitalism, patriarchy, colonialism, racism, sexism, and other evils of the modern world, they seem to suggest, and an ideal society of love and harmony will emerge. The idea that humans have evolved merely with a Rousseauian tolerance, and not also with a Hobbesian selfishness, is problematic to the extent that it encourages people to let their guard down."

(From: Richard Wrangham: The Goodness Paradox: How Evolution Made Us Both More and Less Violent)

Matias 8 Mar 9
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Every idea you mentioned Capitalism, Patriarchy,Colonialism, Racism and Sexism all reflect an earlier stage of human evolution. Its east to correlate each one of these concepts with a primitive survival instinct. The invention of technology capable of destroying the human race is also a consequence of this instinct. The question is can the evolution of our capacity for higher thought preserve us from the obvious result of this destructive technology. I believe it can, though I can produce no evidence for this conclusion. This is why I'm a theist. Perhaps others can come to the same conclusion without belief in a higher power. In either case Its an act of faith though (in my opinion).

I don't see the connection between believing our capacity for higher thought will be engaged to save us from our ability to destroy ourselves, and being a theist. Perhaps you could elaborate?

Speaking for myself as an atheist, I believe our capacity for higher thought might be deployed to save us from our ability to destroy ourselves, but that's no guarantee that it will. Indeed, this may be an evolutionary "hard stop" beyond which many species simply don't get. That would help explain our seeming alonneness, which suggests that the universe isn't teeming with advanced civilizations broadcasting their communications all over the galaxy. This is a sobering realization that should (but probably won't) motivate us to improve the quality and self-awareness of our thought processes.

If "higher" thinking is needed, it seems to me the path to that is rational thought grounded in reality, not wishful thinking grounded in hopes and desires and fears.

@mordant I believe that what the Bible calls Christ is our Higher Consciousness. Satin is just our "Shadow Self". There are no supernatural supreme beings. I believe God is another word for Universal Laws. We were all "created" according to these Laws. Prayer and Meditation can clear our minds, and help us see these Laws more clearly. Religious language has power in that "Sacred" words are those that evoke emotions and emotions .provide fuel for actions. The Doctor who runs the Theology Dept. at my Seminary calls himself an Atheist. I don't have a problem with that. Its all semantics to me.

@Seminarian I appreciate and respect your perspective, but am probably a little more cautious than you in repurposing words freighted with particular meanings. The psychological term "shadow" is what should be used to describe that concept, not Satan. Things like existence or the universe of consciousness should not be relabeled as "god" (which you're not doing, it's just a common example I've encountered). Why? Because people readily talk past each other when they hear certain terms and assume you mean what they mean by it.

That said, I do appreciate that our subconscious deals in and responds strongly to symbols and archetypes, and I don't have any big malfunction with people who understand and deploy religion on that level, other than that I think at times they are inadvertently enabling less functional forms of religion, and/or failing to call it out where it's harming society.

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Offhand the Rousseauian perspective seems incorrect. Until WWII there were various tribes of very primitive peoples on the island of Borneo who had never had contact with the outside world, and they were at continuous war among themselves. If there has ever been lasting peace among humans I’m not aware of it. Warriors—that’s what we are.

Even the peace within a society seems not to last long, and it’s not really all that peaceful either.

Maybe the best we can hope for is to find peace and happiness within ourselves individually.

@TheAstroChuck I hadn’t thought of it that way but it makes sense.

@TheAstroChuck Budistical is an adjective and has a nicer ring. Did you mean it in a negative way, like artsy-fartsy?

🙂

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Humans by having the ability for abstract thought and the further ability to use that abstract ability to modify their environment, have suppressed and damped down their instincts in the modificationd they have created.

As such, they have lost contact with their instinctual messaging. This makes them essentially unfit in evolutionary terms for their environment. Eventually their ability to deflect and hide from their environment will fail them and extinction or near extinction will follow.

Whether they have a innate proclivity for peaceful existance or a violent nature will become irrelevant. Evolution is about tension. Tension between a species and the ever changing environment within which it dwells. Some tensions are resolved easily and simply by natural selection. Some are resolved with tremendous stress exerted on the species before an adaption that is more fit and successful occurs.

In most cases "Lord of the Flies (Hobbsian) seems to predominate over Roussean solutions.

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Humans have a dual nature.

Elaborating:
Unlike most other animals who are compelled by their instincts and gut emotions, humans also have the power to envision consequences and make plans. These are deliberative powers. Thus, our dual natures.

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We are not all born the same but what is sure we on average become less violent with age

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