People, even professional news media, use slang without knowing what it means. Just heard another news commentator use the term "call a spade a spade." I have even heard an African American news commentator use that term on the news. This slang term does not mean call a garden tool a garden tool, and when you think about it, it makes no sense to go around saying call a garden tool a garden tool but people say it all the time anyway. Spade is an old slang term for a black person as in "black as the ace of spades" which is another old slang term that used to be used to refer to especially dark "darkies". "Call a spade a spade" used to be used in the same sense as call an n-word an n-word. Can't believe people use this racist slang term all the time, usually in ignorance I realize, and no one calls them on it.
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Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.Sorry but you are wrong, the use of the word Spade as a racial slur only goes back about 150 years and come from the term "Black as the ace of spades" which was not originally racist either and simply referred to children becoming dirty while playing.
Call a spade a spade goes back at least as far as Geoffrey Chaucer who used it in the Canterbury tales.
LenHazell53
Level 9
July 16, 2019
0
I can see that I was not clear enough in my original post. I was not referring to the original idiom, but the more recent racist slang. Neither one of your historical references conflicts with the point I intended to make. I was not referring to either Plutarch or Chaucer. I thought that was clear, but I guess not.
BTW, the original phrase was to "call a fig a fig, and a trough a trough" which was a vulgar expression relating to sexual genitalia and had nothing to do with a spade. It was only through what is generally considered to be a mistranslation or textual copy error that Erasmus confused σκαφην (skaphe), with σπάθη (spáthe) and substituted "shovel" for "trough". Because of the great Erasmus' reputation, it stuck and somehow later got switched to "spade". But, my real point has nothing to do with "calling a fig a fig and trough a trough" or its mistranslation predating the racial slur, but to avoid the implication of a racial slur that can be offensive. Common courtesy for the feelings of others.
Same for your historical point about "black as the ace of spades" being a translation from the Kerry Gallic phase for dirty Irish children. The historical precedence of dirty Irish children wasn't at all what I had in mind or was making a point about. Again common courtesy for the feelings of others.
A swastika originally had nothing to do with Nazis, but would you fly a flag with a swastika on it and then excuse it on the basis of previous historical precedence?
Not in this context it means to not dress up a description plain usage
bobwjr
Level 10
July 15, 2019
1
Yes, I am aware that is essentially what the news commentator meant in that context.
Sorry, there are two definitions for the term and calling a spade a spade is a legitimate phrase used by many people as a previous poster noted, to call something what it is. Yes, there is also a derogatory meaning but that's not what that phrase is about. To also use the previous poster's "beating around the bush" example , no one's beating any female's "bush" are they? Of course not, the meaning is avoiding or skirting the issue. I think there are certainly enough hateful and derogatory comments being made without having to go search for them where they are not. I think it also ruins one's credibility when you can see hate in non-hate speech.
lerlo
Level 8
July 15, 2019
1
First of all, the origin of the idiom 'beating around the bush' is associated with medieval hunting. In medieval times, hunters hired men to beat the area around bushes with sticks in order to flush out game taking cover underneath. No one thinks that beating around the bush refers to a female sexual organ, No one uses it that way except as a bad joke. So your analogy breaks down.
Secondly, I am most definitely not seeing hate in non-hate speech. I very clearly stated that it is usually used in ignorance, and not with racial intentionality. But I have heard it used in a racist context more times than I care to count and to deny that would be disingenuous. And to be disingenuous is to ruin one's credibility.
@Heraclitus You use an outdated explanation of "beating around the bush" and say that my analogy breaks down, but you can ascribe your own meaning to someone calling a spade a spade. I had a feeling my comment would fall on deaf ears.
@lerlo It most certainly is not my own meaning as you have unfortunately ignored. I am, of course, well aware that there are two different definitions and uses of the term. I am simply against the use of a racial slur even if used in ignorance as this simply serves as a dog whistle for others, especially in this age of renewed white supremacy. And I too had a feeling that my comment and anti-racist stance would fall upon deaf ears.
@Heraclitus and it's your right to hear racism every time someone uses a spade for a spade
I believe you are partly correct. There is another meaning and other connotations. Probably best to avoid it, so as not to be misunderstood.
"The phrase predates the use of the word "spade" as an ethnic slur against African Americans, which was not recorded until 1928; however, in contemporary U.S. society, the idiom is often avoided due to potential confusion with the slur."
"To "call a spade a spade" is a figurative expression. It is also referred to as "let's call a spade a spade, not a gardening tool" which refers to calling something "as it is", that is, by its right or proper name, without "beating about the bush"—being outspoken about it, truthfully, frankly, and directly, even to the point of being blunt or rude, and even if the subject is considered coarse, impolite, or unpleasant."
[en.wikipedia.org]
AnonySchmoose
Level 8
July 15, 2019
3
Thank you. You have given the best response. However, I do take some exception to this historical justification. The original phrase was to "call a fig a fig, and a trough a trough" which was a vulgar expression relating to sexual genitalia and had nothing to do with a spade. It was only through what is generally considered to be a mistranslation or textual copy error that Erasmus confused σκαφην (skaphe), with σπάθη (spáthe) and substituted "shovel" for "trough". Because of the great Erasmus' reputation it stuck and somehow later got switched to "spade". But, my real point has nothing to do with "calling a fig a fig and trough a trough" or its mistranslation predating the racial slur, but to avoid the implication of a racial slur.
@Heraclitus
Right ... the advice I read was to avoid the expression out of consideration for those to whom the contexts are disrespectful, even if they aren't present. Better to use an inoffensive expression such as: Let us be 'plain-spoken' or 'matter-of-fact.'
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