"Where you there?
"Well, were you there when you say your god created it all?"
This is a common rebuttal to the scientific explantion of the orgins of the universe (specifically the expansion that we can observe) and Evolution (again supported by tons of evidence).
The argument goes something like this. As we can not be billions or millions of years in the past we can not observe anything. The evidence that has been left behind bones etc are not admissible as evidence as we could not be there to see them live in real time.
Usually examples are given such as if we find a deer skeleton we can observe it and can infer that a deer actually existed. Apologist simply ignore this evidence and reply "were you there?"
The idea apologist have is to "debunk" science with this statement and proffer that their god created everything.
I like to turn the tables when this is done. So if science can not assert as fact anything without direct real time observation of an event then it is no more valid to assert that god did it as there can not be any direct real time observation of said event. Were you there when god created the universe? Then how is your explaination any more valid? It is important to leave it there at this time in order to give them time to think without jumping into the actaul evidence. This is about exposing the fallaciousness of the argument not proving science.
This is simply a tool to teach theist about how this argument is fallacious.
Do you have any other ideas on how to handle this arguement?
2
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2 comments
Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.I do not get into arguments about the origin of the universe. Expansion or not, evolution or not, the origin of the universe is an ineffable mystery that can not be understood in terms of objects existing in space and time.
It is just as meaningless to claim that the universe fell into existence randomly as to say that God created the universe. Both statements are utterly useless and have no meaning.
WilliamFleming
Level 8
Feb 7, 2020
1
Yes, ignore it and get in with my life because it has no intellectual currency and I don’t care what someone with that mindset thinks.
Geoffrey51
Level 8
Feb 7, 2020
2
I do as they have a direct affect on my life when they decide to vote nor discrimate against me for jobs or even in social situations. I will not stick my head in the sand and pretend these people don't have profound affects on mynlife outside my home. This is not to suggest that you are anyone else does.
@DavidLaDeau Well said. Its very like.
I did not get upset, when they took their share of the widows pension.
I did not get upset, when they tortured my neighbors child with fears of death.
I did not get upset, when they told the girl next door that she had carry an unwanted child.
I did not get upset, when they spat on my friend and his husband.
I did not get upset, when they beat the woman I never met, with heavy canes.
I did not get upset, when the child in a foreign land died of a preventable disease.
I did not get upset, when they spent the hospitals money on a new church.
I did not get upset, when they concealed crimes, for no one raped or humiliated me.
I did not get upset, when they tried to suppress learning and knowledge so that people would not know how to question.
I did not get upset, when they forced a nine year old to marry.
I did not get upset, when they took a dirty knife to a tiny little girl, (I could not hear her scream.)
I did not get upset, when they put people to death for being humane to others.
I did not get upset, when they threw stones and bullets at one another's children, its their argument after all.
I did not get upset, when they;-
Sorry I think that I have to go now, I hear some knocking at my door. Maybe its them? I am sure it will be alright though, they have nothing against me do they ?
@Fernapple Don’t read The Trial by Kafka!
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