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Any fans of RBE?

Thoughts?

SCal 7 Aug 1

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How would population be controlled in an RBE? I think the runaway population growth of humanity is more critical than the human contribution to global warming, 46% of which is a natural aging process of our sun star.

Do you see human colonization of Mars and a moon of Jupiter as possible solutions to the over population of earth?

You probably think that because the economic and social systems we have been raised in are extremely sick. Instead of thinking about controlling the waste and hoarding of resources by governments and groups. You think there are too many humans, so some groups should forcefully control human reproduction. Which is the ultimate fascism.

To put things into perspective, if every human being presently alive was given a 1′ x 2′ piece of land on which to stand, every human on Earth would fit easily into two small cities.

Humans actually actually inhabit only about 10% of the Earths solid surface, not counting just the surface of the oceans and major bodies of water.

There is no way to know the actual carrying capacity of the Earth, because Earth's resources have never been measured. The oceans currents and floor have only been mapped in the last 80 years.

It's estimated that the Earths carrying capacity with current tech is somewhere around 100 billion humans.

@EarnestEccentric We should not colonize any other celestial bodies until we first learn to live together ob Earth.

We will just take nukes, other vile weaponry and our extremely abhorrent behavior into space and onto other planets.

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I've been following the Venus project for a couple of years now. They definitely have some intriguing concepts that are appealing, but I'm still on the fence about the successful viability. I do think we need to embrace a balanced view of utilizing technology to achieve social goals and am hoping their model shows some success. It's a fascinating project.

Technology will be used no matter what. The question is, to what ends?

The worlds populace has adopted socialist/communist governments that prop up corporations entrenched in cronyism. Cronyism is tyranny. Especially democratic cronyism.

Jacque and Buckminster believed that RBE must be voluntary in order to work. The only system that is purely voluntary is Capitalism.

Capitalism left alone creates abundance. RBE creates abundance. RBE = Capitalism.

All other systems = tyranny.

If humans do not survive the next 100 years it will be because govts have moved us toward war, corporatism, waste and away from each other using fake and controlled scientism.

Capitalism requires high levels of efficiency in order to compete. That competition creates abundance.

Abundance creates a fork in the road. Throughout history that fork has led to cronyism due to a power vacuum in govt systems. That has been the fatal error humanity has made repeatedly.

Instead we must continue to create abundance through Capitalism. Capitalism = RBE. Free people exchanging ideas and abundance freely. Govts and communes topple this order of abundance and free exchange in favor of redistribution through cronyism. History has proven this repeatedly.

@SCal "Technology will be used no matter what. The question is, to what ends? "
Precisely why I think we need to embrace it in ways that help society flourish rather than oppress it. There is an optimal balance required for that to work, and yes, the voluntary nature of their premise is a big part of what may make that actually achievable.

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I think this whole comment section is full of RBE deniers hahaha.
I'm really on board with it - or my vaguely defined version of it.
It sucks that Jaque Fresco died. Do you think Roxanne (was that her name?) carried on his goals?

I do not think she is an adequate replacement for Jacque, unfortunately. I wish she was.

Jacque and Buckminster were truly mental revolutionaries.

1

I was familiar with this and have posted the following link before. [thezeitgeistmovement.com]
Similar ideas but different approaches to achieve the same goals.

The zeitgeist movie, while highly educational and entertaining, is not The Venus Project. They do espouse a Resource Based Economy, but they are not affiliated.

The zeitgeist movie comes from a brief partnership between The Venus Project and the zeitgeist movement founders, Jacque Fresco and Peter Joseph.

They are both revolutionaries of our time; however, Peter Jospeh became a bit more militant and controlling, and that is not what RBE & TVP are about.

I personally believe they both get some things wrong, but their premise and direction are sound. Jacque passed away s few years back at around 102. TVP is now headed by Roxanne Meadows.

2

Sorry, a Resource Based Economy is a non-socially stratified voluntary society, that revolves around a populace highly educated in engineering and science.

The concepts come from the minds of many, like Jacque Fresco, it's designer who named it. As well as minds like R. Buckminster Fuller. Both were pioneers in engineering with many patents. Jacque took it a step further by also applying engineering to social structures and human behavior.

There is no currency in an RBE. The idea is that humans are to inhabit areas of the Earth, while letting the rest of the Earth go back to nature.

Todays society is a fixed society. Things like militaries, police and politicians are concerned mostly with keeping things as they are for the purposes of controlling people by force. This is why we see our society and it's people becoming more and more authoritarian and totalitarian. Federal police kidnappings anyone?

A Resource Based Economy is an emergent society focused on problem solving, human behavior and creating abundance through machines.

[thevenusproject.com]

SCal Level 7 Aug 1, 2020
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Naaa, not any more. I built my last custom tower system back in 2000/2001 and have been using laptops exclusively since 2010 and don't really make any moves to soup them up at all (not much of a gamer really). I do most of my computing on my phone these days (Galaxy S20+5G) and only use the laptop to back up the phone files and do a little cd/dvd work as needed.

A Resource Based Economy is a non-socially stratified voluntary society, that revolves around a populace highly educated in engineering and science.

The concepts come from the minds of many, like Jacque Fresco, it's designer who named it. As well as minds like R. Buckminster Fuller. Both were pioneers in engineering with many patents. Jacque took it a step further by also applying engineering to social structures and human behavior.

There is no currency in an RBE. The idea is that humans are to inhabit areas of the Earth, while letting the rest of the Earth go back to nature.

Todays society is a fixed society. Things like militaries, police and politicians are concerned mostly with keeping things as they are for the purposes of controlling people by force. This is why we see our society and it's people becoming more and more authoritarian and totalitarian. Federal police kidnappings anyone?

A Resource Based Economy is an emergent society focused on problem solving, human behavior and creating abundance through machines.

[thevenusproject.com]

0

I loves the RBE. [techpowerup.com]

A Resource Based Economy is a non-socially stratified voluntary society, that revolves around a populace highly educated in engineering and science.

The concepts come from the minds of many, like Jacque Fresco, it's designer who named it. As well as minds like R. Buckminster Fuller. Both were pioneers in engineering with many patents. Jacque took it a step further by also applying engineering to social structures and human behavior.

There is no currency in an RBE. The idea is that humans are to inhabit areas of the Earth, while letting the rest of the Earth go back to nature.

Todays society is a fixed society. Things like militaries, police and politicians are concerned mostly with keeping things as they are for the purposes of controlling people by force. This is why we see our society and it's people becoming more and more authoritarian and totalitarian. Federal police kidnappings anyone?

A Resource Based Economy is an emergent society focused on problem solving, human behavior and creating abundance through machines.

[thevenusproject.com]

1

My thoughts are: what is RBE?

Word Level 7 Aug 1, 2020

The relative biological effectiveness (RBE) is defined as the ratio of the doses required by two radiations to cause the same level of effect. Thus, the RBE depends on the dose and the bio- logical endpoint. ... The magnitude of RBE values and their variations is significantly larger for Car- bon ion therapy.

Sorry, please don't listen to her. She'sway off base and being rude because she has some personal animus against me. Clearly because I think outside of the box many demand you think in on this site.

A Resource Based Economy is a non-socially stratified voluntary society, that revolves around a populace highly educated in engineering and science.

The concepts come from the minds of many, like Jacque Fresco, it's designer who named it. As well as minds like R. Buckminster Fuller. Both were pioneers in engineering with many patents. Jacque took it a step further by also applying engineering to social structures and human behavior.

There is no currency in an RBE. The idea is that humans are to inhabit areas of the Earth, while letting the rest of the Earth go back to nature.

Todays society is a fixed society. Things like militaries, police and politicians are concerned mostly with keeping things as they are for the purposes of controlling people by force. This is why we see our society and it's people becoming more and more authoritarian and totalitarian. Federal police kidnappings anyone?

A Resource Based Economy is an emergent society focused on problem solving, human behavior and creating abundance through machines.

[thevenusproject.com]

@SCal sounds interesting but "authoritarian and totalitarian." Could also be a vice of engineering and science in this RBE scenario.

@Word That is a common retort; however, the intelligent design of society is a material thing.

I believe in a Resource Based Economy, but without it being Capitalist, it is tyranny. This is why RBE fails to take off. It is mislabeled by its creators and advocates.

Capitalism begins to fail at abundance. This is where socialism and communism creep in to force redistribution.

There is nothing wrong with voluntary redistribution and taxation, but once it's compulsory it is tyranny.

RBE is Capitalism/Free people who can own things, but who understand that doing so are not in their best interests. Therefore they achieve abundance along with the group, while understanding that noone and nothing is equal. There are those who simply do more, give more and the fact that they prosper benefits us all.

@SCal What I think people don't realize is that Capitalism is a form of slavery.

When viewing capitalism as a form of slavery it could be seen as the greatest form of a slavery system in the aspect of potential freedom for a slave to move up the hierarchy based on their individual skill, or just being at the right place at the right time.

Genius in regards to capitalism slave labor is the biblical identification for taxation and that certian aspects of power goes thru centralized government no matter how much money an individual or corporation has.

@Word Sorry, I could not disagree more. Capitalism requires no government at all, let alone a centralized one.

Capitalism is the only moral system. It is also the only known economic system that allows an individual to own private property. Whereas socialism and communisn all property is owned by the state/commune/group. Even the fruit of your labor is not yours. This is true slaverly.

Capitalism is the only system that concerns itself with guarding the rights of the greatest minority, the individual. It is also the only system that is purely voluntary.

Most people, clearly such as yourself, confuse the current system with Capitalism. I can assure you that the current system is anything but Capitalist. The current system is a mixture of cronyism, socialism and fascism.

@SCal the current system in America requires that major property that I own I am required to pay taxes or the government can take my home and property.

Explain to me how this requirement to generate money constantly or be out right wealthy enought with money is not capitalism slavery.

Explain how I TRUELY own anything, such as a house or business property, where that If I don't pay these required taxes the government can seize the property therefore i do not have sovereign ownership of my house or property.

@SCal My ancestry that has been in these lands for 1000s of years lived on and lived off of the land. I am not education enough to know their exact "system " and I am sure from regional tribe to regional tribe things may of been a little different. But I do not think anyone was required to pay property tax and they could pitch a tent or make a cliff house dwelling where ever the land appeared avaliable and unused.

@SCal Then, let me discuss capitalism. Defined as: an economic AND political system in which a country's trade and industry are controlled by private owners for profit, rather than by the state. (Oxford dictionary).

You invent a Widget. You want to mass produce your widget to provide millions of people with you latest and greatest invention.

What then do you do to capitalize on your widget?

You "hire" capitalism (minimum) wage slave laborers to produce your invented widget that you want to capitalize on while providing many millions of people with your widget.

@Word

Before we can have a meaningful discussion, you must first have a more clear understanding of what Capitalism is.

Capitalism - An economic system based on the private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit. Central characteristics of capitalism include private property and the recognition of property rights, capital accumulation, wage labor, voluntary exchange, a price system and competitive markets.

@Word

Forced taxation is a part of socialism or communism, not Capitalism.

Capitalism is always voluntary. If force or coercion are involved, it's either socialism or communism.

@SCal You own a service or goods provider, (example: motel or grocery store)). You capitalize to make large profits for yourself by enslaving (minimum) wage earners to work running the business stocking the shelves or registering the guests, cleaning rooms.

Capitalism is about one person (or a small group) making large amounts of money where the masses do the labor and only make enough money to barely survive with only a little to have just necessity for living and not enjoying a million billion trillion unlimited dollars in everyones bank account.

@SCal Capitalism only works when people are forced to work at a (minimum) wage slave labor rate of bare necessity value in order to make the one (or group of people) that benefit in capitalism gains.

Remove the created need for people to be forced to need money and capitalism crashes. People are forced to work slave labor wage jobs because they are forced to need money.

@SCal maybe Jones plantation would help you understand capitalism customer service representative is just a "greater" form of slavery with a different, more politically correct title. As I did say, capitalism slave labor society does allow a lottery power ball chance for any customer service representative slave laborer to move up the hierarchy rank by chance or by education, perhaps.

@Word Actually ive seen Jones plantation. I also know Larken Rose. He is well known Anarchist and Capitalist.

Not sure how you got confused by that, but Jones plantation is about voting and socialism/communism/democracy.

@Word

Bro, if you own yourself, don't you also own your labor? If you own your labor, can't you also freely exchange it?

How do you own yourself and your labor if the fruits of your labor belong to a group and not you?

Capitalism is the only system that allows for the ownership of private property. Your labor is private property.

I have had this same discussion with every confused communist I have come in contact with. There is no minimum wage in Capitalism. You are confusing the current system with Capitalism.

The current system is NOT CAPITALISM . The current system is Cronyism. You are very confused, bro. But it seems you already hate Capitalism because you are confused and like to hate what yoj think Capitalism is.

In Capitalism, you own your labor and may exchange it freely for whatever wage you like, even below minimum wage. The minimum wage hurts people because it blocks more people from getting jobs to learn skills at a yoinger age. It also blocks owners from hiring more people with no skills.

@Word

"Capitalism is about one person (or a small group) making large amounts of money where the masses do the labor and only make enough money to barely survive with only a little to have just necessity for living and not enjoying a million billion trillion unlimited dollars in everyones bank account."

This huge run on sentence proves that you are confused about what Capitalism is.

Yea in Capitalism you can make tons of money. But you cannot do so without laborers who freely exchange their labor for money. In a free market, they are also free to leave and make more money elsewhere or to compete. It is competition that drives down prices and helps everyone!

If a Capitalist has billions of dollars its because he/she has helped millions or billions of people and deserves it! Do you have an iphone or android? Are you on Facebook? Do you have windows on your computer? Most people only have a job and only help themselves. Thus they have what they have. Then they get upset and want govt/the group/socialism/communism to steal the persons wealth via forced taxation because they are jealous .

RBE is the first system that promotes that everyone should be a billionaire! You are promoting that the most resourceful people should be robbed by the group/mob/democracy and made to be poor after they have helped everyone!

Totally bad idea, g.

@SCal no, I am saying EVERY person should have their own personal bank account with a million billion trillion unlimited dollars in their bank account that way no one is poor and a "capitolist" can then capitalize because everyone can afford to purchase his invention. Then because everyone has unlimited money, the capitalist simply keeps records of the number of inventions he sales at an unlimited price to anyone that wants to purchase such because everyone has unlimited money. So, the inventor gets his "reward " for the fact of documentation of providing his invented widget to everyone and everyone still has unlimited money.b

@SCal cro·ny·ism
/ˈkrōnēˌizəm/
Learn to pronounce
nounDEROGATORY
the appointment of friends and associates to positions of authority, without proper regard to their qualifications.

Cronyism is not Not the American forced capitalism system.

@SCal if I go anywhere in capitalism slave labor America and say I want the same $200 dollar an hour wage that attorneys and prostitutes make, no one would hire me to stand at their drive thru window and ask" would you like fries with that". Therefore I am forced by America capitalism wage slave labor to only accept to work for what the slave Master employer has to offer which would most likely be just barely enough to have a living of acquiring the necessary I would need to live and not make a person profit to enjoy being in a million dollar yacht club for enjoying recreational on my days off

@SCal in video, what does plantation ower tell slaves"? They are no longer slaves they are FREE to go to other plantations. Other choices of plantations are worse off and they would not be considered "free". Thus they are now forced to be capitalism slave laborers with a different work title but they are still slaves, but called free

@SCal in video, why does man get beat to death? He argues nothing is changed, they are still slaves just call free and given a few fringe benifets and rights to vote, otherwise still slaves

@Word Youre not making sense, g. Maybe try putting all of your retorts in one post instead of five?

The answer to all of your why questions is; you do not understand what Capitalism is and you have been miseducated. You are holding on to all of this miseducation and refuse to listen to factual information. Due to this, you are confused.

@SCal Critics of capitalism argue that it establishes power in the hands of a minority capitalist class that exists through the exploitation of the majority working class and their labor; it prioritizes profit over social good, natural resources and the environment; and it is an engine of inequality, corruption and economic instabilities. Wikipedia

exploitation of the majority working class and their labor;

exploitation of the majority working class and their labor;

exploitation of the majority working class and their labor;

Capitalism slave labor

@Word

Labor exploits capital holders for their own benefit, freely.

Capital holders exploits labor for their own benefit, freely.

Both sides benefit by having the freedom to exploit the other.

Both sides benefit by having the freedom to exploit the other.

Both sides benefit by having the freedom to exploit the other.

The majority are wasteful, or lazy, or lack vision. That is not the fault of the minority who are prudent, hard-working, or who execute on a large vision. The freedom to change your fortunes are there in a free market. No one is relegated to a predetermined outcome chosen for them by the party/govt/group/commune.

The capitalist who serves the most people does far more "social good" (if there is such a thing), than the socialist/communist who serves noone but themselves with their hand out.

Any capital holders who pollute, under pays, or are corrupt will see their customers refuse to buy, their laborers quit and their competitors thrive.

Unless there is a socialist/communist/fascist group/govt/commune with all power there to back them up. This scenario with these factors is not Capitalism, it is socialism/communism/cronyism.

If any part of a system is not voluntary, it falls short of Capitalism and is some other system.

In Capitalism labor is free to leave, free to compete, and the consumer is free to starve the owners of capital. There is no force. Slavery requires force.

Capitalism is voluntary. There is no force.

Socialism/communism/fascism give the group the unfettered power to utilize force against peaceful people.

Socialism/communism/fascism are slavery to the group.

@SCal Both sides benefit by having the freedom to exploit the other.

Who has the greater power when money is not unlimited for all parties?

Those with the mist power make the rules.

Those with the least power/money in their exploitation labor attempts is not achieving fir them the massive accumulation of wealth as compared to those capital holders.

@SCal capitalism is still a form of slavery unless all parties have unlimited capital at all times.

@SCal in your scenario of capitalism, why must the poorer laborers be forced to use the monetary capital system that the rich capitalist control the money? Why can the laborers not have freedom to have their own money system seperate?

@Word

Capital is unlimited. Capital is created, it is not fixed. Capital comes from any derived value.

Another problem you're having is that you do not understand even the most simple economic tenets, so you are hopping all over and asking the same questions repeatedly.

To understand Capitalism you really need only comprehend a few tenets.

All acts are voluntary. Consumers are free to buy or not buy for any reason.

Labor owns their labor and are free to choose what labor they do and at what wage. They are also free to group up and compete, or compete individually.

Owners are free to hire, fire, discriminate and pay any wage labor will accept.

Any of the above are free to associate, disassociate or compete.

Competition and innovation destroy monopolies and drives down prices for everyone.

High wages spur innovation.
Competition spurs innovation.
Innovation drives down prices.

Money is not currency and currency is not money.

Money and capital are interchangeable and are infinite. Money and capital are derived from value. Value is subjective; which creates infinte capital/money. Again, currency is not money.

If any of these are violated, you are no lomger talking about Capitalism.

You have spent most of your time talking about and describing cronyism, but calling it Capitalism. Cronyism is a form of socialism/communism/fascism.

That is why we are going in circles. You do not understand what Capitalism is.

@SCal chocolate slavery

@Word Good luck man.

I don't have any more time to waste with you.

I am a Capitalist. I choose to spend my time elsewhere.

@SCal have a good one. May them ignorant poor people generate you millions and billions of dollars

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