It had actually been assumed - and still is - that the proof Godel disproved had in fact been proven. We subconsciously intuit one minute that the pre-Godel circular reasoning is erroneous, and the next misconstrue what we are intuiting. Galaxies are not a series of snakes eating each others' tails.

I'm hoping that the debate will also explore button pushing, a system several factions assume they should lock themselves into with each other, and try to lock us into also.

Does this imply underlying connections (somehow) between the meaning of ethics, the meaning of identity, the meaning of logic, and the meaning of matter?

@HenAgnDon Who knows? Quantum applies to individual behaviours. The above concepts apply to bulk behaviour.

@Petter I don't get it. Are you telling me the pushy "christians" who wind up passers by by telling them they are going to hell, don't have the potential (if they take the opportunity) to develop individual actions, one person at a time? Ethics is that we can let the unique individual impact the crushing monolith / jagganauth to good effect, in accordance with personal taste, discretion, opportunity, initiative, discernment etc. I have an ambition for those people much as I doubt most will take the opportunity. When you see non-linear recursions or the ever fresh appearance of asteroids, the concept of "bulk" turns out to need to be rather sophisticated to my mind.

@HenAgnDon Anyone who "gets" quantum, hasn't actually done so! All one can do is accept its individual quirks.

@Petter yes, the quantum has what we may think of as quirks of topology (because multidimensional). What is the topology and the spatial logic of morale, in button pushing situations? When does trying to exclusively confine oneself to that technique fail to defuse, or to startle by paradox?