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Meditation has been studied in the US, scientifically since the 1960's. Yet the "Christian community" is still sharply critical of meditation. (In Christian rhetoric) Meditation is associated with cults, spiritualism, and brainwashing... I argue that any rhythmic chanting, singing, or prayer IS a form of meditations. Thoughts?

4time 4 Apr 16
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They don't like anything they didn't think of.
. Religions are just watered down magic practice. They use the methods they condemn in others. That's part of their game.
. I meditate almost daily. Relaxation or focus. No spirit nonsense about it.

I assure you that even the pagan ideals of "spells" rely on science. And I meditate on many things because there are many meditation methods. But I agree that religion, deity, and spiritualistic thoughts don't come into meditation but rather are pushed from the mind farther and farther by it.

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Fuck the Christians

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I agree that prayer can be a form of meditation. There are numerous ways to meditate and many of them have proven benefits, physically and psychologically.

If Christians are weird about meditation, they need to read their Bible. Matthew 6:6 "...when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret..." That sounds like meditation, to me.
[skepticsannotatedbible.com]

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Not sure what you are calling the "Christian community" but Catholics have a tradition of meditation that goes back centuries. The "Cloud of Unknowing", for example, was written in the 14th century.
Perhaps, those who oppose meditation fear what they do not understand.

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If sitting in a dark comfortable room at 5am in your favorite chair with no distractions while consuming a great cup of coffee and allowing your mind to drift can be considered meditating I'm all for it. This is how I came to my decision to move away from believing. No wonder the Christian community discourages meditation.

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I don't think meditation is associated with anything but self-improvement. I've never tried it myself because it sounds boring.

Rhythmic chanting, singing, or prayer is not necessarily a form of meditation. It can give a group high to those participating, though.

marga Level 7 Apr 16, 2018
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Have been pondering the meditation conumdrum for some time. Have been forced to go to annoying workshops held at work related professional development sessions. Last one was held at a winery. Got aggravated by the "spiritual" posturings (beautiful places and fairies in the garden type stuff) from the presenter. So walked out and got the proprieter to open the bar and meditated with him and his wife over a few brews. Need less to say that I was not popular with managment. Their take was that it helped one cope with work related stress. My solution was for them to improve their stress producing managment practises.

Meditation is akin to day dreaming. It is a simple mind relaxing technique that is, or was, in all of us. Unforunately the alienating society we live in has knocked this out of us. How many times are children told "STOP DAYDREAMING !" ? All in all meditation is a good practice if it is simply seen as mind relaxation.

Back to the question. Besides the perceived association with cults, the fear is that one may have ungodly thoughts which may lead to the break down of christian mind control.

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Yes.

I commented elsewhere that there is nothing inherently incompatible with Christianity in yoga. Likewise with meditation. I feel personally that "prayer" and "meditation" are the same body in different clothes.

When you study meditation--particularly from those sources oriented toward a "Western" audience--you are likely to encounter mentions of meditation in the Christian tradition ("recollection", I believe it's called) and the names of various Christian saints, scholars, and monastics throughout history who have developed and/or expounded upon the subject (e.g. St. Theresa Avila, John of the Cross, Thomas Merton, if memory serves). Meditation in Christianity is totally a thing!

Even if you don't recognize the Christian tradition of meditative practice, if you really studied meditation you'd quickly see that there is nothing remotely sinful, or blasphemous, or "Satanic" (or whatever) about it. There's nothing even spiritual about it--it's strictly understanding how mind works.

Then we have the modern (Western, allopathic) medical community more and more accepting and touting the value and benefits of meditation. And the psychological community more and more incorporating things like mindfulness into their techniques.

The only reason for anyone not to meditate might be a specific, serious mental illness--and even in that case, it would be exceedingly rare for meditation to be ineffective, or harmful. Basically no one doesn't benefit, somehow, from the earnest, diligent practice of meditation.

Many people practice mindfulness or other kinds of meditation without realizing it: athletes "in the zone"; visualizing; focusing on mental object like counting your steps; anytime you purposely keep yourself "in the moment." Prayer, chanting, and singing hymns definitely meet the criteria for types of "meditation".

Meditation can be said to be anti-ignorance, anti-distraction, anti-reactionaryism, anti-unawareness. That's about it.

Anyone who says "meditation is bad" is either ignorant or has an agenda or both. It's like saying "exercise is bad"--ludicrous.

Watch this account for a future "Eastern wisdom" group, to focus on such topics as Buddhism, Toaism, Zen, Indian philosophy, yoga, meditation, etc.

Perhaps you and I have read many of the same books and had similar experiences. Austin's Zen and the Brain developes many of the points you touched on. The brain and our bodies for that matter are constantly looking for patterns. Meditation (imho) is whatever your brain needs it to be. Some experience it as chanting, drum circles, even jogging and dancing. The pattern causes the mind to change, relax AND release chemicals. Music and Religion go hand in hand, because of the calm, comfortable feeling the meditating mind gets when rhythmic patterns and positive emotional experiences collide. In many many people, Church is as far as they get on their meditative development. Which makes them vulnerable to suggestion and coercion. Religion has capitalized on this for as long as man has craved it.

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Prayer is divination.

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I agree with you. And it's a shame they are so close-minded about this. But then, they are close-minded about most things.

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They just don't like anyone else using their "strategies", without paying for them, of course.

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The Clergy want Christians to pray...not meditate.

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