Are we the data points for a research project? Are you going to be quoting people within the body of a thesis? 'Cause that's the only reason I can think of to try to persuade non-believers that you are learning about the god (that is not a god, just an idea, right) that leads to higher consciousness. I'd talk to Buddhists about that kind of concept, myself.

I find discussions about morality somewhat irrelevant. there is morality and immorality and all of us are some of both. what difference does it make where it came from? is some morality more valid than another? do something with it, right or wrong, because it's nothing as an idea.

welcome., glad you're here.

If as much time and energy had been expended over the millennia in space exploration as has been expended on religion and controlling people with religion, by now we would be conversing and trading with aliens light years away.

Welcome. I too was in seminary once a long time ago. I hope that we can be of help to you as you develop new ideas.

Once a reasonable person sees the truth of god and religion, it is like seeing the light, the ultimate setting the mind free of all the hate, fear persecution, of and by religious groups. you do the "right thing" with others, because it is the "right thing" and feels right, not because of fear of a god, or laying up points to get into an imaginary heaven, with a bronze aged idea of a fairy god daddy in the sky. If you read all your religious Texts be it Bible or Quo-ran or any other, in its context from cover to cover, and make notes of all the nasty bits you have trouble living with today. you are likely to end up an Atheist or realise "God" is a maniac or you may realise you have a mental disorder. However the chances of staying a faithful believer is the least likely outcome. Please try it and let me know. All of it. Ancient and modern. Enjoy seeing the truth.

I don't believe in a personal or impersonal god....didn't say there is not god...I just have never seen any sign of one or any higher than human existence that deliberately controls or has any interest in this universe or any of the multiverses. If there is a god - so many questions - why does god make it so hard for people to know about it - why does this god allow such horrible things in this world or are we just toys/pets to use, watch and destroy - what is it that this god wants of us - if we can't really be in touch with this god what is our purpose , etc.
So many questions but no answers, no one who can answer.
So if there is a god - who cares. It isn't concerned with me.
no, I just don't believe in an imaginary thing such as this. God is a word made to describe what we don't understand.

whew read all the posts and welcome to the group

why do you think people with these labels can reach this level of consciousness?

Welcome to the friendliest and most open minded place on Earth!

I don't know why everyone is arguing. I think whatever this guy is selling is awesome and I'm a God!!! Haha! I knew it!
(I'm sure that is not what he meant but I'm running with it! Also someone looked up the church and referred to it a a cult?? I'm totally down. But just if I'm the god and I DO NOT WANT TO BE SACRIFICED FOR ANY OF YOU)

I just looked up the Spiral Dynamics that you mentioned in a reply. I think you lost a lot of folks by using the words "consciousness levels" because that sounds like pseudo-scientific woo. The Spiral Dynamics is actually rather similar to Maslow's hierarchy of needs or, more closely, Lawrence Kohlberg's Theory of Moral Development. These are tools to discuss the development of individual morals and ethics.

I think you're right that a lot of Christians are in the blue section of the spiral or Kohlberg's "law and order" category. This is a description of people whose worldview is very black and white; there is a strictly "right" or "wrong" position, and they are not good with nuance. They are also rather authoritarian. Authoritarianism is kinda what god-belief is all about. So I understand your idea about nonbelievers having the potential to be higher on the chart (although I wouldn't say "higher consciousness" )

Now that we're a bit closer to being on the same page, tell me what Jesus taught that was nuanced or non-authoritarian. I don't have that understanding of his teachings.

Typical christian hypocrisy. To say you believe we have "a higher potential to reach the conscientiousness level that Jesus taught" is proselytizing draped in psychobabble. Then you tell us your not hear to proselytize Jesus F____ing Christ. ..

I don't feel that people who believe in talking snakes and donkeys, whales swallowing folks then spitting them out alive on the beach can raise my conscience level at all.

If your really here to learn take my advise. It's imposible to learn and talk at the same time. So be quiet, listen and learn.

My question here is, "What did Jesus teach?" We don't know. We have four gospels which have been filtered through Paul, who turned Jesus into a the Hellenistic deity: Christ. The closest we'll ever get to what Jesus taught is James, the little brother of Jesus... still those books have been written and rewritten and then made up and written down again. However, Matthew's Sermon on the Mount (aka Jesus' Manifesto) has to be one of the greatest documents ever written.

That being said, I pray all the time. Who do I pray to? I haven't a clue. Probably me, or that part of me that that has access to resources that the "me" isn't aware of.

It's truth that matters. It's that search, and that willingness to challenge our beliefs... that's what gives us the ability to see beyond the superficial...

PS: This is a happy post... welcome to the group.

If you're here to learn, which I doubt, I suggest you go to the website God is Imaginary.

Okay you have me summed up here. I am an ex atheist, then kinda agnostic, then somehow spiritualist because of my interest in Biblical history...or was that the way things were meant to happen?. I have no answers.

Thing is, this post sums me up very well. I would agree that Christians would maybe find this path difficult to achieve because they are too rigidly tied the teachings of the Church. They cannot accept an alternative( subversive) version of what Jesus was teaching. Which is no different to other historic spiritual teachers by the way. But is eye opening non the less.

Why did you join this group? The real reason.

One thing I'd like you to think about UnityBrad is your concept of "the power if prayer", If god is all-knowing, and Has A Plan, why do you think you could change his mind by praying? So you're actually saying "hey god, I think you've made a mistake here, could you change it? After all, I'm praying." So prayer cannot have ANY power at all (not even a little) if god is omnipotent. Don't make any sense, right UnityBrad?

So have you learnt anything yet UnityBrad?

You know, sir, I posted earlier on this but since have had another thought. I suspect you have serious doubts about your "faith" and are looking for a discrete place to connect with those who boldly state their non believer credentials, a place you don't have in the world you live in. If this is true, and I am only speculating, that is very interesting. Jump in sir, the non believer water is fine.

"agnostics and atheists have a higher potential to reach the consciousness level that Jesus taught.." Really Sir, do you expect us to buy that? I'm sorry, and it isn't my call, but there are lot of places in cyberspace where believers and non believers go at it, but I would rather see this forum for non believers to share, agree, disagree and know like minded - dare I say it - souls. If you are a Christian then you must believe that we are outside a state of grace (or similar nonsense) with God and beyond redemption until we "accept" God. How we can be in such a state but reach the consciousness level that Jesus taught (based on all the First Century AD primary sources that DON'T exist) I have no earthly idea.

Interesting that you use the terms agnostics and atheists as if they both relate to belief as they address different things. Does your premise also assume that Hindus and Bhuddists have a greater potential to reach the conscious level (whatever that is) more than most Christians. If so, then why are you a Christian? Is it because that as atheists we are free to make our own decisions based on reason and evidence rather than what a bunch of 2000 year old story books tell us?
Could you please clarify what you are trying to say as you post makes no sense to me at all.

That is a fresh and more pleasant way to interact . I appreciate that recently I have been saying love like an atheist . Then its not some so called religious person with there alternative agenda. Generally this is linked to two things 1) others with a different belief system are wrong or 2) one political party or nationality has more relevance then the other. I read thru that and some of the most giving selfless people the type that would march in the civil rights movement even as that was against the norm . So you might have a priest who is committed to his beliefs marching w Martin Luther KING a man of God. Then of the non clergy marching many of whom now areX pats of the church and likely atheists. Though they still donate and believe in things that are for the better of man and mother earth. I have a hard time taking the current administration and its supporters who claim to prioritize there christianity. Every policy and day this president does what ever is the meanest most selfish act. humanly possible as a group of are populous supports in the name of christianity. So if there is truly a loving creator who knows all . I am of the opinion those that are either less or not affiliated with christianity will be viewed more moral, selfless and loving of all creations.Then those who are saturated w a religious belief and fixating on its ways and being brutal to all that disagree and quite honestly likely brutal to folks with similar believes.

Pray? For what reason? Please explain the benefits that accrue from praying.

Interestingly, a friend of mine once indicated that my actions are a lot more like what Jesus taught than any of the religious people she knows. I was flattered and amused.

Hello brad, what is it that you wish to learn? If you are not here to proselytize am curious that you feel the need to mention our potential to become religious?

If by that you mean (as studies show) we tend to be more intelligent and inquisitive then I accept the compliment but feel it comes from a false perspective.

As for praying it has been shown through double blind trials to have zero effect, most prefer actively doing something useful rather than sending thoughts and prayers.

With respect

John