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Evolution versus Creationism

The human & animal eye is simply amazing with regard to structure and function. I'm a former anatomy & physiology instructor. The human body is simply amazing! How did we get like this? I sometimes do battle within my head when it comes down to evolution versus creationism. Any ideas or insights?

MeteorMoose 2 Jan 13
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Even to this day, life on earth exhibits a complete spectrum of complexity of light sensing organs, from simple patches of skin that can tell if they're in direct sunlight or not, to pitted & recessed areas that allow rudimentary detection of light direction, to the pit being more closed over to allow better clarity via focusing light, to the pit having an adjustable opening to allow focusing in different light levels, to the opening having a transparent layer over it for focusing on things at various distances, to the pit being movable as a collection of useful light detecting parts. Like your eye.
So there's nothing hard about imagining the evolution of complex eyes, when different organisms still have eyes of varying complexity all the way down to something so simple you probably wouldn't call it an eye at all.

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Dawkins has nailed this in several of his books, but I would recommend "The Greatest Show on Earth" since it provides a precis of this and many other evolutionary examples.

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I went to a public high school in Virginia where our biology teacher had us consider the arguments in effect for evolution and creationism/intelligent design, and the evidence of change over time made the case for evolution quite evident. And yet I run into businessmen in Grand Rapids who make a big fuss about colleges and left-wingers “indoctrinating” their students with evolutionary theory. It feels as if I grew up in a different country sometimes.

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Hmm that’s a rather hard one. Evolution at least have some kind of evidence, but can’t tell you exactly what started life. Creation, in my opinion, is taking the lazy and easy way out by creating fantasy to explain the unexplained by replacing things with a god.

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hold your eyelids open and you will find your eye hurting quite quickly but fish have no eyelids. this is because our eyes are still basically the same as a fish and need to be kept damp. evolution is the real deal. if you live somewhere and eat from bushes that are taller than you and you can't climb then once the lower branches are gone so are the shorter of your species. this leaves the taller ones to breed with taller ones making even taller ones than that. because of hunting African elephants are more and more becoming tuskless hurds. woman are having more hysterectomies now because their parents did instead of dying in childbirth.

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Evolution does not address the origin of life, only how life changes over time. Frankly, there is no contest between evolution and creationism. Evolution is a process based in the Universe that we observe and have grown to understand more and more as time has passed, and continues with every passing moment. Creation according to christian reckoning is a fixed event with its roots buried in supernatural speculation and burdened with considerable uncertainty and disagreement among various factions of creation supporters.

Creation stories, to my mind, are simply the result of people not being able to live with the idea that something is unknown and who were driven to fill in the blanks with whatever cultural foundations were available, hence so many divergent creation stories.

By the way, the eye is a terrible example to throw out there as an example, since we have ample evidence of eye development to look at and, I should add, we cannot be the pinnacle of creation based upon the fact that our eyes are nowhere near as efficient as many others. The human being is a magnificent and complex machine, to be sure, but there are several elements in the human design that could have been improved upon by a fourth year student of mechanical engineering. I think in the not too distant future, amazing improvements will be routinely made to the human machine by the human machine.

We are also closing in on abiogenesis rapidly. I wouldn't be surprised to see actual living cells created from basic chemical combinations within the next 20 years or so. Maybe sooner.

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In it's barest sense, Evolution is a process, whereas Creation is an 'event'...As a former science teacher, I have argued that we don't know the mechanism by which life on Earth began, but there is overwhelming evidence (in multiple scientific disciplines) which helps illustrate the process by which it has changed over time. One student challenged me by saying, "The Bible says that God created man in his image, and you're saying that we started off as an amoeba....Which is it?" {Other students quickly pointed out that I had never said that we started as an amoeba} I asked him what God looks like, and he said that he didn't know for sure. I said, "Not to be funny or mean, but how do you know your God doesn't look like an amoeba? Would that make Him less of a God to you?" He later told me that he'd never been confronted with an idea like that, and while it didn't shake his faith in God, it did make him think about biology in a much different way. [PS: He ended up being one of my better students, and we've stayed in touch for almost 25 years. Though he still is a devout Christian, he says that he takes a very critical look at how the Catholic church often tries to downplay science when it doesn't agree with church doctrine.]

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Are we referring to the Batshit Crazy flavor of creationism or the our ability to artificially create life, alter its form and potentially create whole new worlds? Cuz if its the first one, I prefer the older myths. They at least had some really cool stories and bad ass Goddesses!

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It would be incorrect to say "the fact of evolution" but would not be far off. A scientific theory is a description of a mechanism that is supported by fact based evidence. It has undergone more than enough scrutiny and is not a question. Evolution is supported by practically every field of science. Embryology, paleontology, genetics, geology and several more have independently confirmed evolution. The lack of acceptance of it in America is purely due to loud politicians who, in disagreeing that we came from monkeys, acted very similar to monkeys. Hence, the missing link was found.

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No contest.

One is a cutesie part of the god/heaven/hell/sin/guilt fantasy.

The other based on hard fact, with evidence and plenty of science to back it up over and over again !

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Aren't you skipping a step here? What about non-special-creation intelligent design?

Intelligent Design is just Creationism dressed in a mock smock. Pseudoscience and technobabble connected to semi-scientific doublespeak at work.

@evidentialist Yes. That's why I specifically qualified my reply. My qualification would include, for example, the folks from Deneb 4 finding our sterile planet 3.9 GYA and deciding to see if they could design an ecosystem for it. It does not address any universal origins questions. It only addresses the case where there is "credible" evidence of tampering in the genome, or, as Dawkins demands, a "signature." Obviously ID connected in any way to Christian apologetics should be discounted out of hand.

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Having studied this a little, I've seen the evidence in the curriculum and the attitudes toward it in the academic and professional setting. It's taken as a foregone conclusion. There is no debate, no question among the scientists in the field. Their attitude is that rejecting the "theory" of evolution makes as much sense as rejecting the "theory" of gravity. And I saw exactly what they were talking about, in my first couple of years as a bio major.

All it would take is making everyone audit a Bio101 or ecology class. If you still can't swallow natural selection after that, there are probably some major obstacles to your ability to consider and evalute information that will likely impact your life in other ways.

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I would imagine that it has a lot to do with survival and adaptation. Animals that hunt at night have better night vision than animals that hunt during the day. Birds of prey have better long vision and moles that live mostly underground have pore vision. I believe early humans in the early part of our evolution may have had more acute senses than we have now for the simple reason that danger was always a concern.

Betty Level 8 Jan 13, 2018
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The human body could be vastly improved. You could splice jackal DNA to ours to increase our strength tenfold. And if we could separate the airway from the digestive track so we don't risk choking to death trying to eat. Much thanks.

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