Agnostic.com

Post a comment Reply Add Photo

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

9 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

1

Very informative. I liked Samantha Bees' take on this too.

1

I create and implement corporate wellness programs as a consultant. I generally devote whole sections to encouraging women to speak up -- and give them sentences to say and ways to effectively verbalize what their issues are. At the core, it's assertiveness training.

1

70 years of seeing this bullcrap on family, friends, me. The classic was a friend who complained her hip implants, originally very successful, were hurting more & more and was eventually put on heavy Prozac because Obviously she was a middle-aged attention seeking nutcase. This went on for over 2 years. Then came the recall notice for the hips.

We're they Cobalt? Cobalt has caused Cobalt poisioning.

@jwd45244 not sure, too long ago...maybe 20 years now. They were just failing, thus the pain. Once replaced, she was fine again....

0

I love the Atlantic,they do such great work.

0

As an alternative perspective there’s this:

[theatlantic.com]

2

'If you hear hoofbeats, look for horses, not zebras.'. Unless it's an emergency situation, doctors work up from most common Dx to less and less common ones. Unfortunately this means they then have to send the patient on their way because there are a dozen others people who also need help. Hospitals are horrendously understaffed. We need to address that before we start going on about gender.

On the other hand, you can just tell them you can't breathe. I had a muscle spasm that was constricting my ribcage, making breathing difficult and the next thing I knew, I had an x-ray, a CT scan, and a VQ done when all I needed was some cyclobenzaprine.

This is a great piece of advice!!!

Don't go in telling doctors the symptoms you HAVE; tell them the symptoms that will get you the treatment you NEED!!!

There should be a book or a website on how to do this, how to "game" the system to the benefit of the patient!!!!

@TheMiddleWay Argh. This site really needs a sarcasm font.

@memorylikeasieve
Sarcasm or not, I think it's a valid point: if you think you are not going to get your condition seriously looked at because your symptoms are going to get dismissed, then go in with symptoms that cannot be dismissed to guarantee that your condition is seriously looked at.

At the end, you may only need pain meds... but at least you'll have the proper medical workup to make that determination.

1

Having experienced similar greatly prefer female drs. I've only seen one that was wonky.

4

I think this has more to do with the medical profession than with gender.

For one, the exact same thing that happened to Serena Williams happened to me: I was about to get sent home with some pain meds after very sharp excrutiating pain to my side. It was only after an MRI was requested that it was found that I had a pulmonary embollism.

As well, compound this by the stereotypical male attitude to either not report or underestimate the pain they are in, such that if a doctor says "it's nothing" they may (stereotypically) be more inclined to believe it. notice a quote in the article: " the CDC has estimated it affects some 6 to 12 percent of adult women in the United States, many doctors still don’t recognize the symptoms. " Not recognizing is different than gaslighting... that is a failure of training

Also, using "gaslighting" is a hyperbolic judgement. When someone gaslights, they do so on purpose, with the express intent to make a person question their sanity. This is not gaslighting but doctors not recognizing the symptoms at worst or taking too little time with their patients at best.

Furthermore, I can't help but notice that most of the evidence in this article is anecdotal and thus doesn't account for the women that were NOT sent home and who DO get the proper care. Even the CDC quote say "many" doctors don't recognize but don't actually quote HOW many. Even the actual doctor (the only one in the article BTW) states "Men with sexual and reproductive dysfunction have to fight for the care they need sometimes too, she points out, but “to a lesser extent” from what she’s seen."... but what she's seen may not be indicative of everything considering that as a woman, she would naturally see less male patients and more female ones.

I'm not saying this isn't a legit issue. I am saying that ascribing this to gender will not get at the core issue of how doctors practice their trade and that we have to be careful making medical decisions or condemning people based on anecdotal evidence and hyperbolic language put forth by non-medical magazines that rely on anecdotal evidence and hyperbolic language to get clicks. 😉

U never see any articles discussing how women get 4 times the amount of money spent on them for healthcare either. All we get is how bad things are for women while men's issues are not allowed and in many cases labeled as sexist and hate speech. Sexism is present in our society and is experienced by men just as much as women but to try to speak about means we hate our mothers.

@jorj
"U never see any articles discussing how women get 4 times the amount of money spent on them for healthcare either."
I'd like to see those if you have them handy... but keep in mind that how much is spent on either sex really isn't an issue here.

@TheMiddleWay [fatherly.com]
[health.harvard.edu]
U can start with these. The Harvard one don't focus on funding any but shows different truths about how men are behind.

@TheMiddleWay [quora.com]

@jorj
Seems the only discrepancy in your two articles is breast v. prostate cancer.

And that makes sense given that breast cancer has a better advertising footprint than prostate and women are almost 50% more likely to die from breast cancer than prostate... so it makes sense there would be more spending on it.

I don't think this makes the case that women get 4x as much healthcare spending as men....

@jorj
Unfortunately, the quora link is devoid of any references and thus it's facts can't be verified... not that I trust quora for fact finding to begin with. 😉

@TheMiddleWay the quora article points out the number of health facilities across of America for men and women. That's the main reason I share it and I agree with u that quora isn't a beacon of fact finding but I'll get more articles for u when I get to my PC. I don't have all my life is available to me now.

Meant links but autocorrect put life in

@TheMiddleWay According to this article lifetime healthcare spending for women is a third higher for women. Part of that is because women live longer on average.

[ncbi.nlm.nih.gov]

As you say, that’s not the topic at hand. A neighbor recently was diagnosed with intestinal flu, and what he actually had was an intestinal blood clot. Healthcare is simply not an exact science.

@WilliamFleming that study is for spending on bills, but spending compared to funding has different aspects all around. Funding research has no bearing on spending for individuals. The number of places funded that work with only women compared to men isn't accounted for in that study that I can see. Overall men are left behind in all aspects of this issue. That studies does show that women are getting more spent on coverage than men tho and yes, a reason is because of the longer life expectancy. If we are to be a society that is for equality there must be a 1 to 1 ratio for all people is my look on it so we need to catch up with more spending on men's facilities as well as research money spent. I doubt it ever happens unless a major swing in culture happens.

@jorj Curious about your reply, I googled, thinking I’d find you wrong, but actually there seems to be some truth to what you are saying. This Atlantic article eg:

[theatlantic.com]

Maybe women aren’t the victims some claim to be.

@WilliamFleming the problem with finding stuff is anything that shows that men are less fortunate is usually attacked by feminists as hate driven and then due to pressure from MSM and such, the men's studies are shunned from being reported. It's all a bunch of BS and the real truth is the "patriarchy" has been dead completely since about mid 70s. We live in a matriarchy if u look at health care, college graduation, women making more money than men until they leave the work force to focus on kids and family, media pushing all women's issues as serious (even slut and fat shaming) and on and on, while on the other hand, if i mention mens issues I hate all women, even my mother. I'm 100% for equality but when white men are excluded from everything because of history we have to look at things objectively and admit the truth of reality.

Women have babies, I expect that makes a difference as it means pre-natal, giving birth and post-natal care.

@WilliamFleming
That article is over 20 years old. A lot can change in 20 years... or not. 😉

@jorj
"If we are to be a society that is for equality there must be a 1 to 1 ratio for all people is my look on it so we need to catch up with more spending on men's facilities as well as research money spent."

Well, that is one way to define equality. But another is by assigning weights. So if a disease that affects women is more deadly to women than a disease that affects men, I find it "equitable" to spend more money on the women than the men. This is the case with breast v. prostate for example. I should also mention that men also get breast cancer but women do not get prostate cancer, another reason to validate the higher breast v. prostate expenditures.

A "1 to 1" argument is valid all things being equal... so spending on black women v. white women or black men v. white men should be the same since they are (by and large) biologically equal. But spending on men v. women will never be "1 to 1" equal due to the inherent differences in our biologies such as men and women have breasts but women don't have prostates, women give birth but men don't, women live longer, etc.

@TheMiddleWay justified or not, the ones that scream thenloedest about inequality need to realize the truth. I point out the facts of society and throw the 1 to 1 in because that is what equality means. Men's righss are labeled HATE from the feminists while they push lies about how men have it so much better across the board. And yes, things have changed over the last 20 years but not in a more positive direction for the one label hate groups. I'm sick of being to?d how me being born white and male means I by default have everything handed to me while everyone else suffers and it is all lies. People need to wake up to the bullshit because our society is at a bad spot with all this division stuff.

@Cassiopeia most studies account for the child birth part of this. It's just the fact of society that women have it better in many areas but refuse to accept that and see their privileges. I know I have some privileges just like ALL others have but I also have oppressions as well. There is no special group in this and until people realize that and unite we just all lose.

@jorj
"1 to 1 in because that is what equality means."
My point is that men and women aren't equal and thus equality thus defined cannot be applied. There is no such thing as equality, there is on equivalence or equity: the amount spent on women should be equivalent to that on men... if that means more on breast than prostate so be it IMO.

" I'm sick of being to?d how me being born white and male means I by default have everything handed to me while everyone else suffers and it is all lies."
I agree. Stereotyping white men is very much in vogue today and because they ARE the majority they are somehow just supposed to take it without any consequence to the person using the stereotype. If we were to base our decisions on blacks or women on the stereotypes applied to white men, there'd be hell to pay.
And yeah, this only causes further division as we play "the blame game" instead of "the fixit game".

@TheMiddleWay women don't die at 4 times the number of men that die of prostate cancer. I accept your point completely and honesty don't care if they get more spent on them. I just try to show people the actual truth of stuff so maybe we can come together. The left wing tactics are destroying our country by driving people like me away because of the lies and hate they are using to push the majority voting block away. Any issue men bring up is met with vitriole from them.

1

Thank you for this. Sharing!

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:152955
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.