Agnostic.com

59 4

Agnostics/atheists do you require evidence for other things in life, too?

We require evidence to believe in god. Do we also require evidence to believe in other things in life? Better put, do some of us believe in things for which there is no evidence?

What am I talking about? All kinds of things: Astrology, Myers-Briggs, Organic produce, juice cleanses, the list goes on.

If someone pointed out that there was no evidence behind your belief, would you be willing to change it?

jwd45244 7 Aug 12
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

59 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

0

Personally I feel it's illrational to believe in anything that has no evidence to suggest it's true.if anything is a matter of any inportance and one does not question it without reservation or conviction that would be illlogical.truth is what the facts are.

0

And I am certain you stay away from exposure to Kryptonite.

0

Evidence based everything - physical, social, economic, medicine and health care, politics. I'm a devout Whatworksian.
It means I often get mistaken for a liberal, but I just look at the world and think 'What works? What provides that old chestnut of the greatest good for the greatest number?'
And the answer is often Sweden. Well, the Scandinavian model of social democracy and regulated capitalism anyway.

0

Depends what your trying to prove and if it's an issue worth debating. Time is precious life is short.

0

Absolutely. Emotions have their time and place but logic and evidence guide me.

0

I require proof for everything be it bigfoot, aliens, unicorns, or that my step-mother isn't a witch.I take nothing on faith and it's served me well and saved me money.

0

Yes. To do otherwise leaves one open to the whims and whiles of charlitans.

0

Certainly.

Evidence is a good thing and most will not argue that it 100% guarantees the right decision or opinion. It's a matter of evidence vs. opinion. Things are more or less likely. And extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.

I don't personally believe in any of the examples listed, so that's an easy question. You gave a broad range of examples.

I would ask questions that could be measured. If presented with properly gathered evidence, then yes, I would definitely reconsider.

What is something that you have changed or considered changing your point of view about?

0

I don't believe in any of the things you mention in your list. Without scientific proof I don't believe. If I hold an erroneous belief I will always examine contradictory information that I come across.

0

It's a simple question. Why believe in something that is not yet proven. Hearsay is hearsay. And i don't need junks like those. ?

Reliance upon learning that some idea, philosophy, belief, or, yes, even what we like to call "reality," is not as certain as people generally believe. In addition to the incredible power to know, we humans also have an unfortunate and inherent limit to how and what we can know. Here is a comment by a prominent scientist about the subject of "scientifically proven": "Scientists tend not to use that phrase all that often.

The scientific method is more about “failing to disprove” things, or showing things have been detected or match within a level of statistical significance.

Similarly a single peer-reviewed scientific paper in a reputable journal is usually insufficient to be more than just “interesting” or “shown by one group” - when multiple groups round the world corroborate the idea, then it starts to be seen as something that the next “tier” of knowledge can be built on.

“Science” just creates a model of how things work, that we can use to make repeatable and reliable predictions. These models are used (and hence “proven&rdquo😉 up to the point that they fail to predict something that is." I hasten to point out that scientific proof is the strongest indication of what IS IN REALITY, all one need do is look back through history to discover the many solid conclusions that have later been superseded by subsequent research. That is, however, the best we can do. Everything we think we "know" is subject to modification or total rejection. The real problem lies in those beliefs that are not provable AT ALL, such as belief in a deity. If you feel so moved, read the brief explanation of this issue posted below.

0

I realize this is a bit long, but I thought it worth posting if it helps anyone sort out thi subject: A QUICK LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FACT AND OPINION, ETC.

Over the past several months, I have read a number of unsubstantiated claims and invalid arguments on this site, generally addressing either some political or religious issue. Some of them I have agreed with and some I have not, but in either case it was in spite of the nature of the statement rather than because of it. I assume that I am addressing an intelligent audience (some here are saying, “Man, that’s a wildly dangerous assumption!&rdquo😉, so I thought, why not touch upon the differences among truth, fact, and opinion, since so many seem confused about those differences.

First allow me to point out a crucial matter about opinion. Believe it or not, many actually think that any conclusion they hold about some issue or another is unassailable since it is their “personal opinion.” I should clarify that belief immediately: personal opinion is unassailable ONLY IF ONE KEEPS IT TO ONESELF. As soon as one offers that opinion to others, an indication that he/she is seeking agreement, an obligation exists to provide evidence and logical argument showing how that evidence supports that opinion. In the absence of evidence and logical argument, no one has any reason whatsoever for accepting the opinion. Indeed, one wonders why the person who expresses it believes it. “Because I say so,” does not constitute a sound argument.

Speaking of opinions, however, this would be a good place to remind ourselves of the difference between opinion and fact. Many, here, will wish to simplify matters and dismiss the issue by pointing out that facts are true and opinions are not, but that just confuses the issue; the matter of truth and falsity is another part of this subject, one which I will address separately but in the same context. Here is what we need to remember: that which is factual by nature can be proven true or false; an opinion can never be proven true or false, only more or less valid, depending upon the logical presentation of evidence to support the opinion. So if one were to say, “ The outside air temperature on the other side of that window is 74 degrees Fahrenheit,” that statement is of a factual nature because it can be proven to be true or false. It either is 74 degrees Fahrenheit or it is not. If the speaker were to have added, “and that is uncomfortably cool,” that would be an opinion. It is neither true nor false nor can be proven to be. If I said that the speaker believed 74 degrees Fahrenheit to be uncomfortably cool, that would be a fact; It could be proven true or false, in this instance simply by asking the person. Do you see the distinction?

Now let’s confuse the issue a bit, perhaps, by examining the difference between truth and validity. It is quite possible, through observing the rules of logic, to arrive at a valid conclusion that is not a true conclusion. In deductive reasoning, which we all employ on a regular, daily basis, we move in our thinking from some general proposition (or premise) through a specific observation, to a specific conclusion, and if we follow the rules (some of which I won’t go into here), we will arrive at a valid conclusion. Consider, for example, this little logical format called a syllogism:

                               Man is mortal;

                               John is a man;

                               Therefore, John is mortal.

I could have left out the conclusion and you could have supplied it, whether you could cite any rules of logic or not, because we think that way normally. Essentially what is happening here is that we have two end terms, “John” and “mortal” that have in common the middle term “man,” so we are able to link them together through the verb “is.” What if the first premise read “Man is not mortal”? The conclusion would have to be that John is not mortal. I can say that the second conclusion is valid, since the rules of logic were followed, but now the matter of truth/falsity comes into play: even though the conclusion is valid, I must also say that it is false, so there is an essential difference between the concepts of validity and truth. Unscrupulous politicians, TV evangelists, and other salesmen know this, so we must be alert to those claims that sound “logical” but about which “there’s something we can’t quite put our finger on that doesn’t sound quite right.” I do not wish this to become a detailed and lengthy discussion of logic, a much too complex subject for this brief note; I just hope for some basic understanding of the terminology when I use it, and the hope that you will be able to identify whether your assertions and arguments are sound or not.

So, it’s possible for someone to express a valid conclusion that is not true, because if any of the facts (evidence) upon which one reasons to the conclusion are false, the conclusion itself must be false. But let’s move forward with this brief exposition and examine truth and opinion in a bit more detail and introduce some other terms that are also pertinent. I’ve already delineated fact from opinion; well, that’s essentially the same distinction we can apply to objective and subjective. An objective view is one based upon factual evidence, while a subjective view is not; an objective view can be proven true or false, but a subjective view cannot. Subjective views of a certain magnitude are referred to as beliefs, and since they are subjective, they are based upon faith, in the absence of factual evidence. Most if not all religious beliefs are held on the basis of faith; indeed, in the Old Testament of the Christian Bible, we find the following statement: “Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.” The terms “objective” and “subjective” can also be used to indicate something existing in the physical world as we know it (objective) as opposed to something existing primarily in the form of ideas, in the mind, (subjective). Unfortunately, many religious people fail to recognize that the nature of the conclusions they hold so dear are opinions, beliefs, not based upon factual evidence for the most part, and are, therefore, seen as viable only by those who share the same faith in those conclusions. To my knowledge, the only factual evidence possible for support of most religious beliefs is personal religious experience; unfortunately, the only ones of those of which there is public awareness were experiences by those few who reported them, so are essentially baseless for the faithless.

In conclusion, I would say that the worst offenders are those who, instead of proving logically reasoned, factual arguments, provide yet more opinion masquerading as factual evidence, in the vain hope that it will convince their audience. I am particularly concerned by those who argue from a base of ignorance concerning argument. Many even think the term argument identifies a confrontational exchange, but just as disturbing are those who do not know the difference between fact and opinion, and offer opinions to back up yet other opinions, ad infinitum. I will close with an observation by one of my favorite thinkers, Niels Bohr, Nobel laureate in physics, for his then revolutionary atomic model, a model which has since been modified a good bit. At an international conference of physicists, the subject of truth became an issue among the participants, and Bohr said, “There are two kinds of truth, the trivial truths and the Great Truths: a trivial truth is one the opposite of which is clearly false; a Great Truth is one the opposite of which is also True. That sounds suspiciously like the distinction between fact and opinion I expressed earlier, doesn’t it. A final note: learning means always approaching every subject with an open mind, always approaching every subject with questions, whether or not you think you’ve already answered them, never simply hoping to discover others’ compatible opinions in a vain effort to support your own, while rejecting out of hand evidence or conclusions that seem not to do so.

Goodbye, and don’t blame me; I am just another inmate.

0

Yes, I need evidence for other things. So, I know they are true and not made to con people. Only religious fools and kids believe in imaginary things.

0

Yes, I require evidence to believe in anything. I have a higher standard of evidence for things/ideas that are important to me. More importantly, I am willing to suspend/end belief should given compelling evidence.

1

You are mixing "apples and oranges." Niels Bohr expressed it well in suggesting that there are two kinds of truth: there are the trivial truths, the opposite of which are clearly false, and there are the Great Truths, the opposite of which are also true. Belief in God and similar beliefs are examples of Great Truths, since they cannot be proven true or false, at least as far as we humans are concerned; the other beliefs you mention can be proven true or false so would be classified as trivial truths. As to people requiring evidence before believing in God, such a belief is not an inherent phenomenon in human experience. One comes into this world having no thought of such a thing, subsequently being introduced--and in many instances "brainwashed" into thinking there is even a question about the existence of such aa being. So, as we inherit the situation, we are taught that we must choose, while, in fact, it should be the obligation of those who profess such belief to present reasoned, evidence based argument in support of their belief. Unfortunately for those individuals, however, there is not credible evidence they can present save one: personal experience. The problem with that is that ehy are the only ones who had said experience. One of the principal stumbling blocks we in the Western world encounter is that we become immersed in cause/effect reasoning. It becomes impossible for most even to entertain the possibility that there might not have been a first cause. I find interesting reading the explanations coming from various cultures through which they have attempted to identify that first cause, or as Aristotle called it, the "primum mobilum."

0

I require evidence for any sort of claim for something being true or false. Without evidence to prove what is being put forward, there is no substance to an argument without proof to support the claim. Facts become facts through scientific evidence, reason, logic, demonstration, and testing the results. When different tests provide the same results, it is no longer subject to opinion. I would absolutely be able to change my opinion when presented with evidence to prove me wrong. That's how science works. Opinions don't change or affect facts but if you are logical, facts should mould your opinions.

0

I like proof for everything, due to I have been lied to so much in my adult life. Beleiving in god is living a lie and I'm glad I;m an atheist.

0

Short answer is yes I believe in things that aren't directly or easily measured. Examples: black matter, love, there is definitely something about the zodiac that labels personality traits and a common energy that others can pick up on. The law of attraction. The idea that most humans want to be good but are primarily self focused.

0

Hypothetically, yes.
I don't think the "beliefs" I have are as unsupported as gods.

I don't have evidence other people feel love. They act like it, sometimes, they say the words; but it doesn't conclusively prove they feel it. However, I believe it is often the case that they do.
In part because I feel it, setting a precedent, confirming the existence of the experience. Also in part because I can't imagine why the world would perpetuate such an illusion.
Reasonable certainty goes for most things. If someone wants me to question it, they better bring something to make me doubt my heretofore evaluations.

0

This is a story emphasizing getting information from the trusted source.
Many years ago (once upon a time) A component fitted in a mobile toilet block required very frequent servicing.I contacted the manufacturer of the toilet many times and was told we have fitted over 5,000 and had no problems.I contacted the manufacturer of the component who told me I had the ones specifically product for the fire service.I could could buy a similar product designed to work in corrosive situations such as toilets but dearer.

9

2

If someone presents me with a statement, I may base my belief or non-belief on it on many things instead of proof - though proof is always preferable, I may not have the knowledge to correctly interpret that proof one way or the other, or proof may not be available. For example the trustworthiness and expertise, I am not a physicist and am educated in that subject only to A-level; therefore if a physicist tells me something that seems plausible, I'll defer to her greater knowledge of the subject and decide that what she says is probably true (if it doesn't seem plausible, I'll check her academic reputation and see if any other physicists corroborate what she says). Likewise, if my friend says he saw a herd of deer on his way to work, I don't question it because I know deer exist and that he traveled to work through an area where deer live, even though I didn't see the deer myself and he can't prove that he did, either (this is also why I believe the USA exists - I've never seen it, but enough people say they live there to make it seem more probable than not that it actually does exist, however unlikely it seems to the rest of the world). Meanwhile, if someone tells me something that doesn't seem plausible - perhaps my friend arrives at work the next day and says he saw a dinosaur on his way in, I'm rather less likely to believe it because it's implausible due to my knowledge that there haven't been any dinosaurs around here for quite some time. Subjects such as astrology fall into that last category - what proponents claim is so implausible, I don't need evidence either way.

Jnei Level 8 Nov 7, 2018

You are right the post covers a broad area.There is no short answer .Science is always updating and correcting as technology advances.We take from it what we can understand and sometimes refuse information if we already have formed our opinion.

0

Actually, yes. I am skeptical of anything or one if what they say sounds off to me. I do admit I am nieve and too trusting. After being a repeated fool now I'll say ok, then research.

I don't fucntion too much on "belief" to begin with but yes, show me I'm wrong and I'll adjust.

0

No need take fun out of life, leave that to the church

0

Of course, why not? I remember finding breast lumps about 30 years ago, in my 40's, and being told in no uncertain terms that coffee was the culprit, I must never have coffee again. Now, it's "drink 2-3 cups a day for heart health".... I never gave up the coffee, anyway!

0

I would like have some evidence of any god . But even if is true . I decided myself stay without gods

All other factors can be eliminated in a discussion of belief in a deity except personal experience. f another person tells you s/he has had a personal experience with God--He spoke with the person or some other tangible, physical event---you can neither prove nor disprove that experience. Your only response has to be that you had not experienced such an event, not that you either believe or disbelieve it. All other religious beliefs can be (and have been) dispatched rather easily.

1

Yes, I don't believe in things other than religion for which there is no evidence. This includes Santa Claus, Unicorns, space aliens, astrology, vaccination/autism, Leprechauns, etc.

That said, I sometimes to things that assume unproven assumptions if I determine that the odds of them being effective are worth the cost. For example, I take a multi-vitamin with 50-odd ingredients even though it may just give me expensive urine, under the assumption that the chance of it helping is worth the small price.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:153949
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.