Agnostic.com

23 4

What are your arguments against the word "God" being in America's pledge and national motto?

The words "under God" were put in the pledge of allegiance and "In God We Trust" became America's national motto in the 50s during Dwight Eisenhower's presidency. The main point of this was to boost morale and put Americans on a pedestal above "Godless Commies." This being said, and with around 21-22% of Americans claiming to be non-religious, why is there such a problem with removing the words? What are arguments you have heard to keep the pledge and motto as it is? And if you think it shouldn't be changed, why not?

jadeb99 3 Oct 20
Share

Enjoy being online again!

Welcome to the community of good people who base their values on evidence and appreciate civil discourse - the social network you will enjoy.

Create your free account

23 comments

Feel free to reply to any comment by clicking the "Reply" button.

6

Pledge: God was an afterthought, added in the 1950s during the cold war as a stand against communism.

The Motto (on the money): This may be apocryphal, but a friend of a friend of my cousin read on the internet that originally it was "In God we trust, all others pay cash."

Hahahaha. Hilarious.

5

We were one nation, indivisible, until we were divided by god.

4

I don't think we are 1 nation under God. I no longer say the pledge of allegiance. I don't like the phrase ''In God we Trust''

4

Church and state should be separate. Always. IMHO.

We don't have a constitution that I'm aware of, but my national anthem starts "God save our gracious queen, ...". I'm not sure why she needs saving though; she seems to be doing pretty well.

3

I think it's fitting, they both ignore facts and reality to derive at their conclusions. God's believers use the bible as fact and the country uses the popular opinion of people who are mostly religious. It's always helped me understand why things are the way they are. As god is okay with slavery while hating woman, gays and minorities, one could easily see how they became part of our laws. >

I've always refused to pledge allegiance. Initially, I would stand and wait for everyone to finish and sit. My 2nd and 3rd grade teachers never noticed or said anything, but my 4th grade teacher found it very offensive and sent my to the principals' office. My teacher and principal, illegally, told me that I had to participate. First, I mouthed the words and eventually re-wrote and pledged something like this instead:

I dread allegiance to the flag of the united hates of america or to it's public with demands, under fraud, divisible, with misery and roughness for all. >

Eventually, I got suspended for the first time. This would later become pretty much an annual occurrence, however, I think my teacher and principal also got into trouble as when I returned from my suspension, the pledge was no longer a part of any classes daily activities.

3

I am a teacher and by state law we are required to recite the pledge every day - and the "under god" part does bother me since it is inconsistent with the non-establishment clause of the Constitution and it was not in the initial version of thee "pledge." Still I don't think this is a battle worth fighting since the religious right would object - just look at the reaction to NFL players taking the knee during the anthem. I see other battles as more important - like simply making it clear that the US is not a "Christian nation." That is actually spelled out in the Constitution

I disagree that it's not worth fighting over to remove those words, because the religious right use that as one of their rationalizations for why this 'is a country founded on christianity'. Their words, not mine. I think removing references to god would help to give us back the separation of church and state that so many of us desperately desire, and our founders believed in.

I am more concerned that the radical right is trying to stop the teaching of evolution and climate change using religious arguments. Just this year I got a full color pamphlet (book really) against climate change - one that was sent to all science teachers across the country. Even in Massachusetts science teachers seem to be reluctant to emphasize evolution in biology classes - they cover it quickly and minimally rather than as a guiding principle in science.

3

Originally the "pledge" was writen as an advertising campaign to sell flags. The original pledge did nto contain the words "under god" in in when adopted by the government. It was added as a way of appeasing McCarthyism advocates in the late 1950's.

The motto on American money"In god we trust" was added to appease a far righ religious movement, as a way of keeping religion out of government and maintaining the separation of church and state. I am nto completely sure, as it has been a long time since i read about this, but I believe this happened between 1900 and 1910/.

If one reads the notes and letters of the founding fathers iot is very clear that the U.S. government was founded as a secular government. Teh word does not belong as a part of anything remotely associated with the government

3

In which God do we trust? Is it the god of Christianity, Islam, Buddhism, etc. How about if I want to say "In Zeus we trust" or "One nation under Thor"? Are these concepts any more logical than our current religious beliefs?

3

People have been bitching to the government for years to remove it from the anthem (and remove it from our currency) and they either refuse to do it or just ignore it.

To me, that says a lot about what they think about citizens who don't believe in the same god as they do or those who don't believe in any god at all.

I believe most are pandering to voters. A large amount of both sides believe. They don't want to rock the boat.

I agree most are pandering, I wonder how it would be if the number were reversed with the non-believers being the majority.

3

Yes, it was added in the 50's and violates state/church separation. We live in a multicultural and multi religious society. Attempts at keeping god on the money and in the pledge are really attempts at further Christianizing the nation.

3

It should absolutely be removed. America is a cosmopolitan melting pot where all people should be free to speak and act as they wish. Placing a single god over what is polytheistic society is not the American way and not what our founding fathers envisaged for America, especially as most were fleeing from poverty, religion and the elites ruling over them.

3

Separation of Church and State, plain and simple.
The words "Under God" weren't added to the Flag Salute until 1954, and not on Paper money until 1957. I personally think it should be removed from any government anything. like Police cars, etc. It does not represent me as an American, as I do not believe in a god, so personally i find it offensive that it's even there, because the phrase "In God We Trust" certainly doesn't apply to me. 😀

Totally agree. I might also add that it should be removed from oaths in connection to government, e.g. in the courts, upon taking a political office. I would gain a lot of respect for a politician who refused such an oath.

2

I've never heard an argument that makes sense. For example, the idea of manifest destiny was all about how the good lard wanted the US to be the super-power and model for the world over. I also hate it when the crazies cite the founding fathers as intending to create a Christian nation, which is totally false and the opposite of what they wanted in America.

2

The religious right are a very powerful group who speak louder than most and are listened to the most because they have big money behind them. They would be dead set against removing the words. I really don't understand their inclusion being it seems they'd be in violation with the separation of church and state.

SamL Level 7 Oct 22, 2017
2

I hate the pledge but will mouth the words minus "under god" if I feel it's necessary.

2

do not need fantasy in my life.

2

First, I don't think "under god" or "in god we trust" should be in the pledge or on money.
When I recite the pledge I leave out the two words I find objectionable.
And as to money: I cross out the four words..but only on paper money, it's too hard to remove them from coins!
Even my checks have the words, Atheist Money printed on them. When someone tells me they don't know if they can accept my check, my response is that I guess they never received a check that "bounced" from a religious person!"
Finally, when called to swear in court I always respond, "I affirm". Nothing has ever happened to me for doing ANY of the above.

1

it needs to be removed! government is not supposed to recognize any religion. and with separation of church and state under attack, we need to take an absolute stand.

1

The answer for me is simple.The Constitution states that there shall be be separation of church and state. The pledge is the state, currency is the state,prayer before meetings is the state. These all should be eliminated as violations of the Constitution.

1

Our original motto was the 'collectivists creed' "e pluribus unum"...."Out of the many one"

It was religious weenies who changed it later on.

0

The arguments i've heard to keep the pledge are because we are a Christian nation, which is false. Or because more than half of the population is Christianity; eyeroll. People are probably just fed up with the bullshit of religion, which I don't blame them. But seeing how removing the words would cause an uproar and protest and the potential for non-believers and probably liberals (since apparently politics are brought into every thing now and it would be claimed as the liberal agenda) to be targeted and may result in physical harm, I would leave them be... Do not want to deal with that nonsense.

0

It was a political move. That makes it supremely hypocritical. It also violates the Constitution's "non-establishment" clause. That makes it illegal.

0

Simply put whose God are they referring to? Since there are many interpretations of God should it be plural to account for all of them? Do we give preference to one over another? Do you have to mean the Baptist god or the Jewish god or the Catholic god? Seems silly to fight over something that doesn't exist and normally I avoid such discussions, but if we are truly a nation of freedoms then one should not be forced to pledge to a nonexistent being. I have no objection to Santa Claus or the Easter Bunny for the same reasons, so long as I am not forced to believe I could care less what people waste their time believing.

Write Comment
You can include a link to this post in your posts and comments by including the text q:1879
Agnostic does not evaluate or guarantee the accuracy of any content. Read full disclaimer.