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Would you give him a second chance?

This morning on the phone, I leveled with Stuart about my experience during his stressful visit. I tried to be kind and clear. I described behavior, instead of attacking him personally.

He took responsibility for his behavior, listened and apologized. Earlier, I described what happened in this post:

Microcosm of the future relationship

After our conversation, Stuart send me this email:

"Kathleen,

We only get one chance to make a good first impression, and I blew it. I am truly sorry that I irritated you.

I enjoyed your company. It was fun to pal around together.

I am sure you have no desire to ever see me again. However, perhaps your anger will lessen in time, If at sometime in the future you can see your way to forgive me I would love to take you out to dinner, perhaps on one of your visits to your daughter. I would be willing to return to Wenatchee to take you out to dinner. No need to spend any additional time with me beyond dinner..

You are a lovely person, and I truly, truly regret causing you distress."

Stuart

Would you give him a second chance?

LiterateHiker 9 Oct 6
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22 comments

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5

Thank you, everyone!

This is what I told Stuart today. I wrote it so I wouldn't get sidetracked:

Stuart,

I found it stressful to spend time with you. You are not an easy or fun person to be around. We are too different. I don’t like your negativity, criticism, fussiness, humorless lecturing and refusal to cook.

“You need to listen to me carefully, because I am always right,” you said on the phone. That attitude drives away people.

Unlike you, I’m not the type of person to sit on my butt while someone slaves in the kitchen. I jump up and help. Cooking together can be teamwork, sexy and fun.

You turned up your nose at my cooking, food I offered, restaurants I suggested, and the hike.

“I’ve seen more beautiful places,” you sniffed. Putting down Icicle Gorge was elitist and bad manners. I would never say that to the person who planned the hike.

Of course, I have hiked in more beautiful places. I chose Icicle Gorge because the hike was short and easy. I am recovering from pneumonia, and wasn’t sure of your fitness or hiking ability. You emphasized that you only hike four or five miles, and don’t do steep hikes like me.

During our hike, I felt irked, and then bored, when you went on-and-on again about how hard it was to find a condo in the Seattle area, HOA rules, the size of your house in Texas, your high-class Texas neighborhood, ad nauseum. This was not the time nor place.

While hiking, I want to be in the moment and enjoy the quiet and beauty of nature.

“I treat women with respect and kindness,” you like to say.

You did not show me much respect or kindness. Instead, you were critical and arrogant, showed bad manners, and expected me to do all of the work.

This is not an experience I want to repeat.

Photos I took during the hike around Icicle Gorge.

Now that you put down more info in writing, I would say that you made the right call...wow...I wouldn't waste any more time responding to him at all.

You deserve to have laughter and joy in a relationship...not stress and negativity. Find someone that will treat you as you deserve to be treated...you are intelligent, insightful, witty, lovely and kind...you should get those qualities back from any relationship with no compromise.

@thinktwice

Thank you, dear. I appreciate it.

You are right. I want laughter and joy in a relationship.

I don't care that Stuart thinks I'm wonderful. I found it stressful to be around him. Glad we didn't have sex.

@DaphneDarling

Very funny, Daphne Darling! Love your anwer.

@LiterateHiker Those pictures are beautiful! You have the right idea...you have to enjoy the moments as they happen...

@thinktwice

Exactly, dear.

HOLY SHIT! I didn't read all THAT in the other post. Of course you needed to dump this guy. You are a class act and he was a class clown... And THAT is being nice!

Keep looking! You'll end up with someone you really like to share things with. Every relationship requires work.... But not with you doing 100% of it!

4

A few things caught my attention in your exchanges; the fact that you really didn’t enjoy your time with him that much, he irritated and stressed you( he would me too!), he blames you for the falling out and stated he liked being your pal. You don’t need a pal, you need an engaged partner that shares your same interests. I would move on but that’s just me. You’re an incredibly strong. Confident woman... you’ll make the right decision for you.

@Green_eyes

Thank you, sweetie! I appreciate you.

4

Don’t waste your time. Move on and consider it a learning experience. At his age he should have had better manners. He’ll slip back into his old habits after a short time if you give him a second chance. You can’t change him.

4

NO. His explanation is superficial and while he acknowledges your feelings, he does not admit fault. This is not difficult.

3

His response seemed real, and perhaps he will change some. It's your call. No one else was there and heard your conversations, which are important to answering your question. A big question in my mind is why didn't he offer to take you to dinner at least once.

^^^THIS^^^^

2

Let me play umpire and call him....... OUT! (With best umpire voice)

Apologizing is easy when you are told your (apparently) repeated shortcomings. Just my opinion, but this shows character flaws... Not little mistakes. I would think that if you got together... You'd repeatedly have to nag him to help with things.

I just met someone last week. We had a few dates and I invited her over to my house this past weekend. When she showed up she had a little bag of custom made sweets from a cakery near her. (I had told her of my fondness for sweets on our first date.) I cooked her steak and shrimp on the grill and she was repeatedly asking what she could do to help. I told her this is what I like doing but perhaps she could help in the future.

THAT is what you are looking for!

2

He is a lizard . He eats flies and hopes nobody will cut his tail off . U don't need that .
Mr Lizard will be dating self for a long time , although a nice obedient and broke girl w a lot of baggage it might tolerate him as long as she needs .
Bye bye Mr lizard , enjoy your flies . Butterflies are not for u Sir .
Don't sweat over these type of humans ma'am , smile on mirror and stay " alive "♥️?

@Pralinal

Very funny! You have a great sense of humor.

2

I forbid you to see this guy again. He's a tool. You can do better.

@Sgt_Spanky

Yes, Dad! I promise I won't see him again.

I don't wanna go to bed! Can I stay up and read funny comments? Please.....

@LiterateHiker I suppose so but first go into the kitchen and fix me a chicken pot pie while I sit here and look at porn. Call me when it's ready.

@Sgt_Spanky

First let me fix my boo-boo with your username. There, I fixed it. Better, now?

Very funny! Love your sense of humor.

@LiterateHiker By the way, did you meet this guy on this site, or some online matchmaking thingy, or just a good old fashioned pick-up in a bar? However you met him, I don't think this one read your profile either.

@Sgt_Spanky

I met Stuart through Fitness Singles dating website.

I never go to bars. Not my milieu.

@LiterateHiker I was initially gonna suggest you give him a second chance until I read how he behaved on the first date. After that, nuh-uh.

2

Nope. Someone once told me that if someone tells you who they are you should listen. And in this case, run.

2

I read this post first and had to follow your link to see what you were talking about. Girl! I would absolutely pink slip this dude. It sounds to me like he showed his true self on date #1 and now wants to present a different, and probably bogus image. I vote no.

Deb57 Level 8 Oct 6, 2018

@Deb57

You're right. I saw the real Stuart.

He had 2-1/2 days to make a good impression. He massively blew it.

2

Sounds like you accurately accessed his behavior from the get-go

"I am truly sorry that I irritated you" implies YOU are easily irritated.

This is NOT the same as "I am sorry I behaved in a matter (specify details) that was irritating". In this version he would have taken responsibility for his actions. As a lawyer, I am sure he uses his words carefully and says what he means.

Then we get into ". . . perhaps your anger will lessen in time" Again. He is not recognizing his lack of being wonderful but blames you for being angry.

Perhaps I am reading too much into this? My analysis is largely based on decades of elementary and middle school classroom/playground teaching young people how to (apologize) in an honest manner. i.e. to take responsibility for your actions by specifying exactly what they did wrong, why it was wrong, and promising this behavior will not be repeated.

I am not privy to his earlier apology so you alone are best able to decide his outcome.

@NoMagicCookie

You're right. He's blaming me for being angry, and implied that it's my problem because I am "easily irritated."

Thanks.

No emoticons are sufficient for this post but ❤.

2

Only if you enjoyed his company otherwise.

@RileyStevens

Read what I told Stuart today, below. I wrote it down so I would not get sidetracked when we talked today.

I found it stressful to spend time with him.

@LiterateHiker Stress, "fight or flight" is not good in a relationship.

@LiterateHiker "I found it stressful" sounds like you answered your question. It is often wise to trust your gut.

2

Entirely your call, of course; just be aware that men our age seldom change as much as it would seem he may need to to be compatible with the needs (required behaviors) you've expressed herein.

2

In my opinion you should not. I don't think that he would change his ways. He did not help you prepare any of the meals and he criticized your cooking.

2

Nope. Go with your initial instincts and not with his attempted manipulation.

@GuyKeith

My gut has been in a twist ever since he left. You're right: I need to pay attention to my feelings and instincts.

He had 2-1/2 days to make a good impression. He blew it.

The only person I can control and change is myself.

@LiterateHiker I've been on jury duty numerous times. I vividly remember what a Prosecutor said when he addressed the jury at one of the trials. This was a serious trial. We were to decide if a man went to prison for life. The PA said, "People lie, circumstances do not lie". The Defendant had a lineup of family members who testified that he was good, was somewhere else when the crime was committed, etc. The Defendant got on the stand and denied everything.

However, the Victim positively I.D'd. the Defendant and the Defendant was apprehended in possesion of the victim's stolen car. The Defendant had two prior convictions for strong-armed auto theft. He said he didn't do it, but circumstances stated otherwise. We convicted.

The lesson? Circumstances don't lie. A belated and manipulative apology does not carry the same weight as this guy's behavior that you witnessed.

@LiterateHiker Relax. You made the right decision.

@GuyKeith

You're right, Keith. I saw the real Stuart. A belated apology doesn't hold weight.

He had 2-1/2 days to make a good impression. He blew it.

1

No, just NO!!!!

1

No. Since I'm no cook, l would have at least done the dishes, and taken you out to dinner.

1
1

I apologize for men. Many of us are not so inconsiderate. I can ramble on, but try not to; and I do listen and enjoy doing so. I, too, like to hike, but I am out of your league. Out of shape. Working on getting back slowly. To dis anyone's trail is downright despicable. My favorite trail is from my childhood, although the state park has hidden it with shrubs and a fence, deeming it unsafe. I still go there. Even took my kids when they were young. Been hiking that trail just over 50 years. At 10 two of my friends found arrowheads. Other people have found them there too. I haven't, yet. Still looking.

Hey, some of us are awesome. Unfortunately, we are not always on the market.

1

He still doesnt cook. The apology is irrelevant. And super news flash . TEXAN ! Braggart turf central. It's a cultural thing.

@Bigwavedave

Love your sense of humor! One reason why I have a crush on you.

Actually, Stuart is a non-practicing, Jewish man who grew up near me in Michigan.

Although we attended the University of Michigan at the same time, we never met.

1

He did own up to his contribution to your stress...is he willing to learn and keep on learning or will it be a temporary thing and not continue?

We have to remember that as we get older, we all can be set in our ways but the difference is whether or not we are willing to compromise and accept that in others with whom we want to develop a relationship.

Could it be he just did not realize from being badly trained or something from his last relationship? You told him what he did that was egregious in your eyes...he knows now...maybe a second chance would give him an opportunity to prove that he can adapt and be more aware...

It was hard to evaluate from you last post whether is was a character flaw of not being respectful and caring by nature or if it was a behavioral habit that can be modified. The former would be no go for me, but the latter...I would give him a another chance if you like other things about him. I think you yourself also alluded to this being behavioral as opposed to a character flaw.

0

Yesterday I sent Stuart this email

"When someone shows you who they are, believe them." This is true.

During your visit, I saw the real you. You had 2-1/2 days to make a good impression. Instead, you massively blew it. By the time you left, I felt tremendous relief.

Your apologies, protests ("I didn't say that" ) and testimonials from other women mean nothing. Again, I saw the real you.

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