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LINK Why is the hard-Left so conservative? - UnHerd

This is an interesting article, written with a UK emphasis but universally applicable. I particularly like the author's distinction between "socialist Left" and "social democratic Left".

Lilburne 5 Feb 8
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4 comments

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Excellent clickbait, mate.. start with, define hard left. Since I constantly say I am left of most progressives, and consider myself be a progressive, how can I be both that and conservative? Calling anyone hard left and conservative sounds like an oxymoron, but again, what is your definition of hard left?..Oh, and , full disclosure, I was born and raised in the USA but have lived in Canada for decades...

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they're not. and who in the world is unherd anyway? the question in the title is loaded, like "when did you stop beating your wife?"

g

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On another thread I broke down the Left and Right by 3 large categories.
Left is community the Right is individualism
Economics. Nonmarket system vs. Market system
Social. Conforming vs. Freedom
Equality. Outcome vs. Oppurtunity
Social Democrats are Right Right Left vs
Socialist Left Right Left

Social Democrats are technically on the right.

@Lilburne We need to agree on definitions of words before we could possibly proceed in a debate.
Left is community
Right is individual

Socialism is when workers control means of production

Government influence in the market or business cycle is Keynesian
We can then look at which type each would favor
Left would favor benefiting everyone even those that didn't contribute
Right would favor the individualism and their specific contributions
But the further right would favor less to no government interaction in the market.

@Lilburne Groupthink is an inherent flaw of community, a left issue. Much like anarchy is an inherent flaw of the right.

What you are describing is what I've stated in my simple definitions way. Which is Republicans are Right Left Right. Meaning for social normative they want conformity to the community, this is where we get anti-gay marriage, pro-life, even racism. However for Economics they want a market system and overall they want systems to reward the ones with the most merit. Obviously there are Degrees to how Left and how Right one is on a certain subject. From an economic perspective from left to right :
[Communism, Socialism]<nonmarket systems| market systems >[Keynesian, Laissez-faire. ]. The only Socialist countries remaining operate in a market system, and aren't truly socialist nor are they fully capitalist. So they are just right of center but as far left as you can be. China is the best example of that. The government of China owns a sizeable portion of the companies in China. It doesn't however own all of them nor does it own all of the ones it does own fully.

@Lilburne If you're super hard right you're a hermit. In which case groupthink is impossible. In society though you're correct as no matter how right you think you are still being in a society means you must by default be a little left.
Orwell was famous for his criticism of Left side politics.

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It might be because they've taken on the mantle of righteousness that used to belong to conservatives.

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