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Genuine question, because I honestly don't have the answer: Can heteronormative men and women be friends? I used to think so, but experience has caused me to have serious doubts. Am I just naive? Overly optimistic?

Edited for clarity: can men and women be just friends, nothing more?

Nottheonlyone 7 Mar 1
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38 comments

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2

its natural for men to want to fuck woman

It's natural for women to want to fuck men, too. We're just less obvious about it.

I guess I'm wondering if there can be exceptions. I'm starting to think not, at least in my personal experience.

I think maybe there is but not often.

OK but why does wanting to have sex with someone rule out friendship? It happens or doesn't for whatever reason but I simply don't get why it's a friendship killer. Unless that's the only reason you like the person in the 1st place.

I think you can have a friendship with heteronormal men and woman as I have a friend but her husband doesn't like it and there is nothing going on. I would want to be friends with my partner for sure too.

@Nottheonlyone Please be more obvious. Really please!

@Nottheonlyone Is it possible that there are different kinds of sex? Is it possible that the drunken sex on Saturday night with someone you never met before is an entirely different kind of bonding experience than the sex of, say, two friends on a cold night, and different yet again for an old married couple?

Perhaps I've been misunderstood. Over the past few years, I've come to discover that nearly all of the men in my life (whom I honestly considered my friends) were, at least in some capacity, sexually attracted to me, which has caused me to doubt my own value as a friend. I don't feel I should have to depend on my feminine wiles to attract friends of the opposite sex. And I certainly don't think it should be my job to be stuck in the role of unwitting gate keeper.

There's less than a handful of them who are mature enough to both admit to their feelings and keep themselves in check. And sometimes I still doubt their intentions.

it does work both ways but its still possible. you haven't been misunderstood by me.

@Dick_Martin I'm certain there are different kinds of sex, but I don't see how that's relevant to the topic at hand.

what I mean is there are woman who pretend to be friends but actually want more, not the sex part. I think your right mostly @Nottheonlyone really

3

It is definitely possible. My best friend is a man. I have had many male friends over the years. It wasn't because either of us were sexually unattractive either. Generally it is due to one of us being in a relationship and the other one respecting that so that sexual attraction isn't considered even if it might be there. It is only possible with men who don't sexually objectify women. It can be very disappointing when you think you have a mutually respectful relationship and that comes up, but then you know that person is not a true friend.

That's the hitch. How can I know who my true friends are?

@Nottheonlyone You can always tell a real friend: when you've made a fool of yourself he doesn't feel you've done a permanent job.

@MrLink I find that both comforting and bothersome. But in all fairness, I've probably done more than my fair share of foolish things.

@Nottheonlyone i still like you.

@MrLink I can't help but wonder if that's only because you don't know me very well. 😉

@Nottheonlyone well, of what I know so far.

@MrLink Thanks, I'll take that!

0

Sure they can be friends. Friends with benefits! <wink>
Oh, wait, are you being serious?

Yeah.

Sigh.

@orange_girl OK, good point. What some non silly sexual jokes? And yes, I'm trying to be silly.

@orange_girl INTERESTING! (needs italics). Humor is always my "go to" especially when meeting someone for the first time. But, I do consider myself a good listener and I think (italics again) I'd understand the mood pretty quickly.

Men often don't want to do serious. I know I don't. Humor is my reflex defense.

@phil21 Putting words between asterisks will make them show up in italics. Put them between double asterisks for bold.

0

IMO when a man and a woman are together alone sex will always be a factor.

Bullshit. Disagree

@spaghettisite The lady doth protest too much.

Testosterone is everyone’s problem @nicknotes

You are a sweetheart....@spaghettisite

0

I think if both have a satisfying sexual relationship with someone else, yes, they can be friends. If not, the guy is going to screw it up.

That’s a piggish answer.

I'm just the messenger.

This is exactly what I fear. But I also can't help but wonder if women would fuck it up, too, if we weren't raised to be "good girls."

I think there are biological reasons why men are more on the prowl than women. it's instinctual to spread the sperm around as much as possible. Men have to fight that instinct all the time. Losers of the fight end up like Weinstein, etc.

1

Family are the only ones we don't get to choose to have in our lives. Even then, we can decide at what capacity and frequency. Absolutely, we can choose the dynamics of our relationships. But, understanding that it can and will be subject to change. Who and how we choose to interact with is our prerogative. I believe you can be friends and a lover with someone. But, not want to be in a relationship with them at that time. Things change naturally. Life is going to happen. The more we expect of life, the more we're bound to be disappointed. Love your life and the people in it. Be honest and convey your intentions. We make our own happiness.

I agree. I was simply surprised to learn how many of my guy friends were attracted to me. I honestly had no clue. And for some reason, that bothers me.

Maybe I'll journal about it, see what shakes out.

@Nottheonlyone I'd like to truthfully say,"We're all adults here." But, people have difficulty distinguishing between Love and Lust. Admitting there is a difference between them is the first step. Then dig a little deeper. Find the source of your own gravitational pull. It will bring clarity to most of your interpersonal interactions.

The source of my own gravitational pull... I'm gonna have to work on that. Self-acceptance has never come easily to me.

Thanks for the thoughtful feedback, I appreciate it.

0

Just friends,

Wow, typing that brings back some bad memories. Getting the "just friends" speech was crushing. WHEN I WAS 17-19!
Are you basing this question on this website, other websites, person to person interactions or some combination?

My personal history. My awakening. My apparent naivety.

@Nottheonlyone Nah, you aren't naive. You are optimistic. There is absolutely no reason that men and women can not be platonic friends. But, apparently there is also some evolutionary reason why men feel the need to "spread it around." So, are you surprised men find you attractive? That once you Friend them they lose interest? This conversation shows men and women can be friends without lust.

I am always surprised when men find me attractive. I usually figure it out after we've been friends for a few years. That's why I say naive.

2

One of my best friends (been friends for 5 years) is a girl. We were never more than just friends, despite being very similar personality wise. It's possible but people do seem to stick with their own sex. Male friends w/male friends and vice versa.

And you have no other feelings for her?

@Nottheonlyone correct

0

In my experience yes, but one will almost always feel pain. In my case, as many others, I have feelings she doesn't share. And I'm trying to be the best friend I can and trying to push the unrequited feelings below the friendship ones. It works sometimes, other times I need my distance. It's..a strain on both of us, but we care and enjoy eachothers company and try to make it work. It'll fail eventually.

True, though I think in my case its about 60 %. But then I form attachments too easily. But you're right, it's not everyone.

2

Sorry, I am a bit confused. I am a heterosexual and would like to think a damn good one. But I am not heteronormative. I have many female friends, almost no male friends. These female friends are really just friends and there will never be anything more.

I'd say the same thing (except the heterosexual part, which I am not).

@Prussianfire yeah its the heteronormative bit I have a problem with, seems almost homophobic which I certainly am not

2

I loved the word "heteronomative!"
Yes, I think so. It might take a while for a man to realize what kind of relationship it is.

Based on your photo, that is the first thing Hetero Norm will notice. But, it can be overcome.

I'm friends with a lot of women and yes, I've probably had "those" thoughts about all of them at one time or another.

Thank you for your honesty.

@Nottheonlyone Thank you for the thank you.

0

Yesssss. Hv had many platonic male friends before

You use the past tense. Where are they now?

I still hv them. @Nottheonlyone

8

I looked u the word heteronormative as it is a new word for me. It's not clear to me what you mean by using that word. My first thought was that you were thinking heterosexual but now I am not sure...
Then the next question in my head "I wonder if she means fiends with no sexual tensions..
In the end my head hurt. I am going to have to ask my friend Linda what she thinks on this...

2

Heteronormative (-: of course! Some of best friends are.... Everyone is an individual.

If you say you have heteronormative friends, you must be heterophobic! 😀 lol

2

It is easier when the woman is not so attractive and the man is not rich, but sure.

Lol. Being the homely chick ftw!

1

It really depends on the pair. I would say it more like this, most men are not made to be just friends.

But women are?

Maybe I've just been under this rock for too long, but when I was married, I assumed all of my male friends were just friends. And, if I'm going to be perfectly honest, I couldn't have imagined it any other way. I was so.... neglected is the word, I suppose, by my husband that I assumed I was unattractive, that the only reason people of either gender wanted to be around me was for friendship. So when I realized that wasn't true, I felt disillusioned. Maybe I should have felt flattered. I just don't know.

0

Absolutely my dear ABSOLUTELY!! Through my " hetero" life, the best lovers I've had the pleasure of knowing HAVE been my best friend. Friendship is the key to a satisfying relationship.

But what if I'm not looking for a lover, just a friend?

0

Ok here is a serious response... Yes, men and women can be great friends, without a sexual component, even if they are heterosexual. One of my dearest friends is a woman who I have known since I was 14. I really cherish this friendship. I would never put the moves on her or risk cheapening it with casual sex. I don't think I would even if she asked for it. I love her like a best old friend, and love that we never went there. Most people who know us probably don't believe that, but it's true. I'm just glad that at some time in my youth I didn't do something stupid to f*ck it up. There are other women too who I know and really like that I genuinely don't want to sleep with. Even if I wasnt married im sure I would feel the same. Now before I was married, aside from long standing friends, most Women I Met were at least considered as a potential sexual Partner. The women were doing it too. Mostly they considered it for a much shorter time, and then concluded, no. Of course. What you might be looking for right now is an asexual male. What do you know about Asexuality?

Admittedly, not much. I understand the concept of asexuality, but I can't really imagine it.

It's not that I need an asexual man in my life, though. It's that I need to be able to believe that I have intrinsic value to men without my sexuality being part of the equation.

2

I'd certainly say yes. Some of my dearest friends are men.

1

It's part of that whole "nice guy" issue some men have. They generally grow out of it once their brain starts working faster than their hormones again.

1

I'm with you. I've always been "over" the whole gender thing. I used to approach relating to men with equanimity. Experience taught me that I'm vanishingly unlikely to meet anyone else whose authentic gender equanimity is even close to mine.

It's frustrating as hell, but what are you (am I) gonna do about it? Get mad that other people aren't like you (me)? Or just accept that people are shittily stupid and subscribe to ridiculous, needlessly limiting paradigms? And that a probable majority of people cannot or will not refuse to be ruled by their hormones and/or subconscious drives?

It is what it is. I've been served too much awful, painful garbage by life to be bothered overmuch by this one. It's disappointing is all. Maybe somewhere there's a heteroman who can treat me like a person instead of a potential vagina delivery-system--but I've run the numbers, and the odds are long. In any case, I've run out of fucks to give about it. sigh

1

Definitely. But if a guy is interested, he’s going to give it a shot. If the guy can’t handle rejection it’s his problem, not yours. Not to say, guys are the only ones who take rejection poorly. Just can’t win sometimes.

Marz Level 7 Mar 2, 2018
1

I have a lot of close female friends

1

I believe so ...A friend is a friend . My dearest friend ( a woman ) died last year . We organised a community garden nearby , share interests , meals etc ...thats all.

1

Yes I have a female friend....just the one when I sat and thought about it...well two but she is an ex.....I would find it very hard being a friend to a woman I was attracted to though...my mind would wander off to often which is not something I worry about with my male friends...its the curse of being a man.: )

You are not being naive but you have some honest answers from the male perspective here.

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