Access to birth control is not "fluff". The society we have with women (and men) having the free lives that they do is not possible without it.

I just want women not to have to be forced into having 12 kids or being celibate. Using the most effective arguments seems the best way.

I like the birth control argument better than the viagra one. It targets the people attacking reproductive rights, not random guys with erectile dysfunction.

@MsAl I refer to birth control as fluff in this debate because it really wouldn't change the outcome in any meaningful way if it didn't exist at all. For example, male birth control is functionally non existent. If something like this was highly effective and mass producible the nature of the issue is still exactly the same, but you don't see anyone campaigning for more research into this.

There are also drugs that reduce someone's libido, effectively making someone want to be celibate. This would be an effective way to reduce rape, birth rates, and abortion rates. No one is suggesting we add that to the water supply. ( with the exception of the armed forces )

That's why I try to separate these things, because the way by which these questions should be answered and thought about is independent from the specifics of the society under which they will effect. That's also how I can tie it to something completely unrelated but real, in this case organ donation. You most likely have heard the violinist argument, but I don't like it because it isn't realistic.

@Happy_Killbot My arguement is not to save birth control (although I think that is extremely important). My arguement is to use the opposition of birth control by anti abortion people against them.

I think that would be effective in convincing the non fundamentalist people who have been fed a line about abortion by extremists.

I think a lot of these people would change sides if they were shown how the anti abortion efforts are causing more abortion.

I also think most people are not ready for a USA without any family planning at all. It would not be the same. Threaten their ability to socialize or buy nice things ever again or to have a double income or a retirement without teen kids and grandkids at the same time at their home. Most people can't afford 8 bedroom homes. Do they want to go back to 4 kids per room and scheduling showers?

No thanks to the anti libido drug. That's disgusting. I just read an article about a drug free long term male birth control in the final testing stages. They have had a pill for a while. It's no surprise female birth control was first That's where the pregnancy occurs. That's just progression of science.

@MsAl Honestly I think the widespread use of male birth control will be the thing that settles the abortion debate, not by solving it but by making it redundant. This is the way political matters where meant to be solved.

They just debate and keep the public entertained until the scientists, doctors and engineers make it work. Technocrats have always been the true drivers of society.

I hear almost nothing about this in the backlash against anti abortion activities. It seems like the easiest way to find common ground and stop this madness. I really don't think there are many people who want to the days before it.

@MsAl It just seems so obvious that if you provide the education and easy access to birth control that you're going to eliminate most of the unwanted pregnancies. This only leads me to conclude that Repubs opposing birth control and sex ed are being willfully ignorant and anti-women. Why any woman (or man) would vote for them is beyond me.