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Would you be willing to pay extra for biomass-based synthetic gasoline?

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bingst 8 July 24
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Here in Billings, Montana, gas (Methane) produced in the city dump is captured an used to power some city vehicles. I'm sure the process could be made more efficient and less costly. It seems like a good place to start but I doubt it will ever have much of an impact on Global warming. Every little bit helps.

karl Level 5 July 25, 2019

Actually, if methane from most landfills were captured, it would make a difference. Methane is a more powerful greenhouse gas than CO2. The problem is funding all these places to capture the gas.

As a sidenote, solid sewerage waste could be used to produce methane, by anaerobic digestion. But again, costs of multiple sites I think hinders this idea.

Another idea is that all this methane could probably be injected into the natural gas system with little to no modification, which would reduce costs of utilization (like conversion of vehicle engines).

@bingst These are great ideas and, I believe, are in practice many and have ben for soeme time. That leaves me optimistic that methane capture can expand fairly easily and quickly. I hope so.

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I think cars should all be electric and have built in solar cells to run on and recharge batteries.

Yes, it's a nice idea. But the reality is that it will likely take decades to get to that point, where most vehicles are electric. In the meantime, given the few years we have to really make a difference, carbon neutral fuels will be a major component of that, if we can really get behind their production.

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Ummm, isn't that corn-based ethanol, in use now for a decade?

No. Ethanol (ethyl alcohol produced by fermentation) is a renewable additive, added in part to make gasoline burn cleaner. It is in no way synthetic. What I'm talking about is synthesizing gasoline from fundamental chemicals (namely hydrogen and carbon monoxide, i.e. synthesis gas), which can be produced by pyrolyzing biomass (essentially, burning without oxygen, resulting in synthesis gas production and char). Perhaps it would make more sense to call it artificial gasoline? It would be 100% plant-based.

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I am a huge fan of Hydrogen... Also pyrolysis of organic matter (Wood gas).

Synthesis gas is produced from pyrolysis of carbonaceous feedstocks, such as natural gas and plant material (biomass, including wood). Synthesis gas can then be used to make essentially any hydrocarbon fuel. As far as I can tell, synthetic fuels from biomass is the most expedient way to get to carbon neutral fuels. Transportation in the US accounts for about 30% of greenhouse gas emissions.

@bingst I'm hip!!! I have a 27KW commercial generator with a 1,000 gallon propane tank buried in my side yard for when I lose electricity. I originally built this place, not only for me, but also for my mom to spend her final years instead of a retirement home. I wanted 100% reliable electric. My thoughts have also roamed to building my own gasifier as I have enough biomass on my 12 acres and surrounding 100s of acres around that to power this generator forever should the need arise. It is a lower priority project for the future. But one I constantly think about!

@RiverRick Cool. What kind of engine does it have?

@bingst It is a Cummins inline 4 cylinder engine. It turns at 1800 RPM and will pretty much run forever if I keep the oil changed.

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I said maybe. Other alternatives would be better and more Earth friendly. Biomass fuel is still a part of the big oil groups, and that will promote their products which need to scale down. Also, as with why ethanol, which is currently damaging the engines designed for petroleum, the same problems will occur - so, will auto makers produce machines that will run well and efficiently on the product? I think not.

There's a difference between biofuels and bio synfuels (synthetic fuels). Basically, biofuels are essentially processed and converted from their organic constituent compound, like diesel derived from cooking oil.

Synfuels are usually derived from synthesis gas and depending on which process and catalysts are used results in gasoline, diesel, jet fuel, even natural gas can be synthesized. The synthesis gas can be produced from any carbonaceous feedstock, such as coal, natural gas, and biomass. From what I've read, they can be tuned so that the final product meets regional standards for content, meaning no changes would have to be made to any engines.

Ever heard of synthetic motor oils? Usually made from synthesis gas produced from natural gas.

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No. I think it is time to develope and promote another fuel source entirely.

Such as what? Ethanol?

@Allamanda The problem with hydrogen and electricity is that there is little infrastructure in place for them and relatively few vehicles that could take advantage of them. To be realistic, it would likely take decades to even get a substantial number of hydrogen or electric vehicles on the road before making any substantial difference to GHG (greenhouse gas emissions).

As I see it, synthetic fuels from biomass is the most expedient way to deal with this reality. All the major fuels can be synthesized. In World War II, the Germans synthesized much of their fuels, but utilizing coal as a feedstock. Most of the basic technologies have been around since the 1910s, although other processes continue to be developed and older ones improved. So they are mature technologies.

@Allamanda The other? I might stress that biomass-based synthetic fuels would essentially be carbon neutral.

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