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Athiestic Marriage

Are athiest that get married sell outs?
Like I've always said I'd never get married there's simply no need; it's a religious institution, it costs money better used on other things, it locks you into a self chastity, high possibility of divorce, no real difference in actualulity of the relationship and adds stress.

It's common but I just don't get it...

JoelLovell 6 Mar 18
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6

Well, there can be benefits, like a lower tax rate, health insurance options, survivor benefits, etc.

My last "wedding" was held in a friend's apartment. God was not mentioned.

With the money you'll save NOT getting married you'd negate all the government incentives. Plus if your in their good books before they die I'm sure you'd be in a prudent persons will. But basically all your saying is 'money'.

@JoelLovell How is getting married expensive? You file two forms, that's it. And I'm no gold digger, but economics is a part of life, especially in a society like ours.

(My ex was unemployed for years. And I'm not getting any financial support from him now, either. And survivor's benefits are only available if you've been legally married for at least ten years. And, for the record, I have zero intentions of ever getting married again.)

You asked a question. I answered. No need for judgment.

@Nottheonlyone not talking about for you you can do anything on the cheap but the impression of value is how much things normally go for the average in the UK for total wedding expenses is 30k not to say that figure can't be skewed by profligate spending however when you add everything up that normally goes into a wedding. Dress, rings, suits, venue, registration, food, honeymoon ... it's not usually cheap. The alternative is not following the crowd not risking divorce, be original boycott marriage. Even from the sample of people that have reply most that have married have been divorced and none come with compelling arguments in favour of it for my cost/benefit analysis.

I personally have no desire to ever marry again. But I have also learned that "never" is a mighty big word.

4

Marriage is a legal institution. Religion aside, a hospital can deny you visitation if your girlfriend, boyfriend, or fiance is in critical condition. There are numerous other legal rights that marriage grants that have nothing to do with fairytales.

JimG Level 8 Mar 18, 2018
4

P.S. You can have a civil ceremony. The divorce may not be so civil. 🙂

2

Marriage has more often been business than oriented than religious. In fact the idea of marriage for love, although romaticized for centuries, has only been in more practiced less than 200 years.

Committign to another person is nto a religiosu thing. It is a legal thing. The churches just took over the institution for a while.

That's very true and that's why it doesn't make sense to me I don't think making business deals with romantic partners make for wise investments.

@JoelLovell Perhaps if partners had euqal power in society it might not make as much sense. However, the marriage agreement in legal terms is to protect partners, usually the less powerful, from beign taken advantage of. I flove were always forever, then it probably woud lnto be needed, but both people and love changes over time. Consider the marriage license to be liek buying insurance to protect you from the worst possible outcome. It's nto very romantic, but it is very practical.

@snytiger6 yh but I'd rather not pay for claims. When relationships are over I want them to be done with minimal fuss. What if the "stronger" partner gets a prenup?

@JoelLovell With a prenup, you still go in with your eyes open.

Personally, I'd only agree to a pre-nup for what we had before starting stays our own. Things erned whiel together would be community property. Anything less shows a lack of commitment and/or love.

@snytiger6 how? A prenup is incase of a divorce by that point commitment is void and I assume love is too. Why would a person that works harder or earns more not want to have the fruits of their labour secure when they split. Call me young but this all sounds like a shady scam. Lol

@JoelLovell Well, I am bothered by the whoel idea of a legal specialty of "family law". In the U.S. each state determines its own "family law". It's all a big mess. I am all for protecting those who woudl be taken advantage of, but I don'tthink I am areally an authority on how to go about doing that. Marriage does provide some protections, but it comes with some costs. I seem to think the costs are worth it, but evidently you don't. I don't think it is a case of one of us being right and the other wrong. i think we are both right in determining what is best and right for ourselves and our own nature.

2

My ex wanted to marry, she insisted, we didn't live together first.
20 or so years later after being seperated for 7 years, she hired a solicitor and barrister in an attempt to stop the divorce. Of course that was impossible.
So I swore, never marry again.
However, if I met someone just amazing, seriously amazing, and it was important to her, then yeah, probably.
Now shoot me.

2

Iagree unless its to keep a person you love from another country with you or there is financial gain otherwise its a pile of shit just like a funeral.

A fellow rationalist I see.

yes for sure

1

I got married at an aquarium and made sure there was no mention of any gods whatsoever. We didn't have a priest either. I think marriage is great if that's what you want to do. I wanted to find the one person I could spend the rest of my life with. Unfortunately, I chose the wrong person so I'm single again. My parents are not religious and have been married over 40 years. It can work.

Remi Level 7 Mar 24, 2018
1

I got married by a registrar in the local town hall no holy people around the two of us - signed the papaers away we went about 10 minutes no Holiness anywhere no religious institution at all .

1

Marriage is not for all. When it is good, it is great, nothing better. When it is bad, it is hell, no actually hell supposedly has limits on how terrible it can get. God has nothing to do with marriage unless it is put there by the occupants. I am an atheist and did not get married because of any god. I married because I found what was going to become the love of my life and I had to give it a try. That was 27 years ago. Kate has a form of Chester-Erdheim, fortunately her variety is not fatal. The disease makes one put on weight, have terrible looking blemishes all over the body, pain. Can't help it but when I look at her I see the woman I married 27 years ago. I would marry over again, knowing what was going to happen. No questions!

1

Marriage is a contract . It's a security contract for investing yourself in another person. You wouldn't invest 10 years of your life into anything else without a contract right? I don't see anything religious about it unless you do it at a church. My first one was at a state botanical garden and my second was at a courthouse. I would have to be very sincere and committed to someone to sign that contract and that's kind of the point.

0

My last marriage was in Machu Picchu, by the mayor of the little town at the bottom of that mountain, for the legal part. The personal part was actually in the ruins officiated by a fellow hiker and close friend. We all took turns reading poems (I read Walt Whitman, for example). The legal benefits of civil marriage has been covered here already. The point is - methinks thou dost protest too much? If you want to be in a committed relationship and have tax, insurance, hospital visitation and other benefits (at least in the US), you can hire a notary, sign a couple forms, and bada-bing. It is not so much about the ceremony, unless you find that fun and memorable. It's more about - are you committed to the person?

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I married in New York City Hall. There were no religious overtones at all. We lasted 15yrs together.

0

Its not a religious institution you can get married by the state at a registry office costs about ten pounds takes about ten minutes and hey presto youre hitched same as births and burials just go to the registrar.

0

I would say no.

Just under half of the weddings I have attended (free-lance photographer or friends) have not been in churches and do not include any reference to the supernatural.

These ceremonies are simply a public affirmation of the couples willingness to dedicate their lives to achieve a common goal of establishing a mutually beneficial relationship for the health and happiness of both parties.

0

When you look it this way you see garbage however with children and legal address with name, it becomes easier to deal with school, neighborhood etc, then as one mentioned there are the tax breaks and survivor benefits. Not selling out , merely capturing the benefits which far out weigh the compromise. In my mind I do not believe the female needs to take the male name. the children could have her last name for all I care. I just care about the people .

EMC2 Level 8 Mar 26, 2018
0

Marriage is for family, not about theism, atheism or agnosticism. Moreover, our DNA tends to make us want a mate. The chemistry is luring and a connection is enduring. Often, when the chemistry wears off, we find the other person less desirable, and move on. But, when we connect, we settle into a long term relationship.

But what i don't get is why you have to be married to have a family

@JoelLovell The ceremony isn't "necessary" but IMO shows a man is financially committed to the family. Women do not make as much salary as men, yet they often care for children without a father. That is unfair. When women have parity with men and a premium for children, then we would approach fairness without marriage.

@EdEarl could do that by investing in unsuperfluous things like a family home? Baby items, family car, child savings account and schooling. All much better ways and less egotistical ways to spend your money with a much higher return.

@JoelLovell Children also need role models, caregivers, and emotional connection. As you suggest, it may all be done by remote control. However, you would miss events and hot have memories that others cherish. My feeling about this idea is that both children and parents would be living a lower quality life than a traditional family, but feelings can be irrational.

@EdEarl I never once alluded to a television raising anyone. I don't even watch tv myself. You seem to be like them religious folk that have a hard time with separating their religion with morality. Getting a contract for your relationship doesn't convey a higher success rate. It doesn't make a child (that understands that not everyone believes in marriage) and it doesn't make your family more happy. It just gives the people in the marriage a false sense of security and the obstacle of divorce. How do you explain the 50% divorce rate? As humans we a capricious and we constantly change and we have behavioural traits that can effect the longevity of a relationship. I'm speaking from the perspective of a person that doesn't fight reality and deluded myself. If you want a good family refuse to be with a woman that you don't know intimately and have a strong bond and mutual understanding with. Have enough money and time to nurture your relationship and family. These things actually effect your family, marriages effect is a short lived idiosyncratic boost for those that buy into the institution. No real difference in the aquasition. Same as religion. The correlations that show higher levels of happiness cannot be shown to be a causality. People that are happy with a relationship and their lives are more likely to want to show their life and wife off and get married. I ask you this, how about places where gay couples are not able to get married or recognised by by others as a legal coupling do their children suffer just because the government won't grant their parents a licence?

0

Religion appropriated what was historically an economic and procreative arrangement between families or individuals.

0

Well... in my country a religious marriage by itself has no legal implications of any kind, actually priests cannot perform a marriage ceremony without a certificate of civil marriage being presented first.
Civil marriage is the only one recognized by the state as such with its respective legal implications in matter of property, custody over children, inheritance, etc. And these things are actually important. This is why civil marriage is practiced.
So if a couple wants to get legally married they have to go for a civil marriage (with or without a civil ritual) and then (if they want) may bring the marriage certificate to a priest to perform a religious marriage ritual of whatever kind they desire.

0

People need to be “married” if they are in a committed relationship. I was in a committed relationship when he became terminally ill. I was his sole caretaker for 6years. Luckily he was lucid for most of the time and could direct his care. When he passed, I had no rights whatsoever. I was pushed aside by the blood relatives I had no idea existed. In the end, all of these people took over and I had no say at all. I wasn’t even mentioned in the obituary.

That's dogmatic thinking that suits religious folk which base there lives around "must" but you basically use it as an instrument of coercion. If a person lives you and you're secure in that love and not indoctrinated. You would see marriage as far from needed but superfluous and burdensome.

He could have made a will with you in it. Normally how people pass on estates and the like. Each case is different but if thats the purpose of marriage which it can't be because there's simple solutions. It's a bad reason. Could even have gaven you a gift before passing just saying hey have this, I want to put that in your name. Not hard.

0

My translation is, makes me feel special, it's something that she wanted, money... maybe and social expectations. Just dressed up in abit of sophistry.

0

It is not a religious institution anymore. It is a contract. If you are married the lawyers will decide how to divide your stuff, as opposed to living with someone, coming home, and finding SHE HAS TAKEN ALMOST EVERYTHING YOU OWN! It took me two weeks to find her and my belongings.

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