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Are we all really Free thinkers?

I find it somewhat pretentious to talk down to those who believe in something I don't.

morlll 7 Jan 17
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9 comments

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0

Our brain does all of our thinking. Consciousness is an illusion. Life experience is like a video being played in our mind. (Sam Harris)

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Then don't do that! I am a free thinker only because no one will pay me to think. Therefore thinking has become more of a really inexpensive hobby than anything else.

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I do not know that those who consider themselves to be "Free Thinkers" commonly talk down to people. If they do they need to start thinking.

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I guess it depends what anyone means specifically by "freethinker." I don't directly use the term, but to me it means simply that I don't accept claims as necessarily valid based on authority. I'm not bound to any dogma or ideology. That's not to say I don't have my blind spots — we all do — but the religious and political indoctrination of my youth, the feeling that those were self-evident truths, has been broken down, and I seriously question the things I used to take for granted.

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I agree. A lot of religious people are also free-thinkers. Should we be talking down to Sir Isaac Newton? To the Buddha? Half of US scientists say they believe in a higher power.

Labeling yourself with some “ism” is primarily an exercise in ego IMO.

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Not at all, you either think or you don't, and if any one is less than free, it is those who try to impose discipline on themselves by asking for evidence and an attempt to remain within the rules of logic. Which tends to be those who reject faith.

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Sounds reasonable

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if you don't examine both sides of it then you're delusional. there is most certainly a benefit to be had with just blind ignorance and faith. I still have hope in the unknown ... but many skeptics are completely nihilistic. So there's a serious catch-22 to the intelligence route - which was the whole point of the Matrix.

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Claiming relative freedom of thought is in no way pretentious.

It's pretentious to take the label "brights". It's pretentious AND insulting to call Christians Christards. But I'd say most Christians would not find "freethinker" demeaning. After all, they claim we seek to be licentious to begin with. They are proud to color within the lines, and think us misguided not to.

You are painting them all with the same brush. When I was 12 I told my mother I didn't want to go to church anymore. There was no fight and no argument, no punishment. I have Jewish friends that went through the same thing. Calling yourself a freethinker is pretentious as it puts you above them just the same way they think they are right. It's insulting in that it tells the religious that they are enslaved, but the aren't many are there by choice. You don't like their choice, but that doesn't take away the free thought of a christian. Again I'm not talking about everyone. It seems to me there are free thinkers on both sides. We atheists don't hold have the right free thought. There will certainly never be any dialogue if you walk into the room with that thought. Now I understand that there are those that won't. So don't talk to them get away from the dogma.

@morlll Well I can only speak for myself (although I don't think my take is particularly anomalous and probably reflects the thinking of many others that use the term). And it has no meaning to me as a signifier of rightness. It is a signifier of freedom of thought. Some of those thoughts can and do agree with theists; some do not. But it says zero about how I handle any points of difference, or what I think about it, or how I feel about it or about people who disagree with me.

"Christard" would be an example that does what you're suggesting. "I'm a bright" would be a somewhat less obvious but still pretty good example. "I am not bound by an arbitrary ruleset in what I can or can't think" is certainly something someone could find a way to take umbrage at, but they would have to work at it and also assume way too much.

So while I hear you that you find the term offensive, and I don't doubt that others do, taken at face value, with its literal meaning, and refusing to read anything nefarious into it, I do not feel that I'm unduly challenging anyone's personal dignity with the term. I ask you with all due respect, to take me at my word as to what I am thinking, feeling, and trying to convey, and not to presuppose any of those things of me or anyone else using the term. Perhaps you've heard someone being arrogant and dismissive use that term. That does not mean it's a valid use of the term according to its actual meaning. Perhaps you've experienced someone claiming the someone who is not a freethinker is deliberately dumbing themselves down or advocating for intellectual slavery. If so, they are misusing the terms, as such notions aren't inherent in it.

There is literally no term one could use that someone hasn't misused or misappropriated at some point in time. People misuse and misconstrue "agnostic" and "atheist" and we could be in an eternal search for some alternative word that no one could possibly be upset by, but that would be a quixotic enterprise that I wouldn't advise.

Freedom of thought is in fact a very neutral concept that, outside the realm of religious belief and ideation, would I'd imagine be something everyone could regard as a Good Thing. People should be free to think about what they want to. And in point of fact, despite the efforts of some to control people's thinking, there is actually nothing anyone can do apart from some sort of "head fake", to prevent people from thinking whatever they want to in the private zone in between their own ears. I am simply asserting that freedom to be a boon and if someone else doesn't share that value, and wishes to constrain their thinking in some way, I have ZERO problem with them making that decision FOR THEMSELVES.

The problem is that many try to make it for others, and that is where we come into conflict. Not over me imagining that I'm superior in some way.

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