I disagree. The system is inherently racist. If you follow the history of America since the arrival of Europeans. The majority of policies have been purposely formed to the detriment of anybody who was of non-white European descent.

It was originally directed at the Native inhabitants. The history of policy dealing with Natives has almost always been overtly racist in its objective. Manifest Destiny as a governmental policy was inherently racist in its inception and manifestation.

The Southern rural culture was built on a overly racist action and policy. Forcefully and cruelly importing blacks for forced labor to support the rural agricultural based economy. Two hundred years of slavery then another 100 years of Jim Crow was nothing short of overt, unadulterated racism. Pick any year from 1619 and any policy, especially in the South, dealing with blacks was overtly racist. The Emancipation Proclamation, perhaps being the exception but it was negated by the Jim Crow policies.

Then take the passage of the Chinese Immigration Act of the 1880's. This was a directly overt policy aimed at the immigration of people of Chinese descent. Several policies, some local, some national, surrounding the immigration of Italians and the Irish had distinct racist overtones.

The policies in the West and Southwest dealing with people of Hispanic descent, were and are racist. Whether it be associated with the farm workers and Bruceros, or the "build the wall", movement, overt racism.

Our government was formed out European Imperialism that occurred around the world. Imperialism is built upon a pretentense of white privilege in which the colonizers are of superior genetic and cultural make up and the colonized are inferior. Since control and structure of our society is founded upon white privilege as its essential paradigm, racism is inherent in our governmental system.

Institutional and systemic racism in the US is the norm and not the exception. Read Howard Zinn's, A People's History of the United States. It looks at history through the eyes of the oppressed groups as opposed to the white washed history we get in the classroom textbooks.

@t1nick You are talking about history. We are not bound by the past. Our current system of law, commerce, education, etc. has been rigorously reformed, at least theoretically, and is supposed to be non-racist. Where there are racist actions you can no longer blame it on the “system”. You can only blame individuals who are in defiance of the established system.

The way into a happy future is through mutual respect first of all, and secondly through obedience to established laws.

@WilliamFleming

I disagree. The 1964 Voters Rights Act and the 1965 Civil rights Act only got rid of the obvious outward appearance by elimenating Jim Crow. Tthe acts did nothing to address the institutionalized racsim in law enforcement practices, the Justice system, or the economic injustices that remained and pervaded our society. Red Line and real estate practices, real estate discrimenation, discrimenatoy banking practices, gerrymeandeing, continual roadblocks to voting rights and opportuniiies. it just goes on an on.

We are bound by the past because the past has never been resolved. It's never been thouroughly dealt with just swept under the carpet or hidden out of site. We are bound by our past because our past is still with us, among us and weaving its evil tendrils through society. Nobody can have watched the news for the last 6 years and not seen the underlying racsim that still persists. A desire for something else is not the same as it being something else.com/

@t1nick It depends on how you define systemic.

While I agree that there is still embedded racism, things are better than they used to be, at least where I live, and things can continue to improve through individual good will and adherence to law.

What do you propose?

@WilliamFleming

Law is a set of rules that work only by common ascent. Trump has taught us that by just declining to ascent to obey that the laws are toothless. Plus you cannot have two sets of laws. One for the whites and another for minorities.

Things are only outwardly better. But not really. Alabama does not have a very good reputation outside of Alabama for being tolerant and fair. If you could get a person of color to honestly give his/her opinion about how things have changed for the better, I bet you would be surprised. But the problem remains that a person of color in the South, still feels compelled to hold their tongue due to the forces of racism that still exists there. Only in urban centers where greater anonymity is afforded would you get an honest opinion. IMO and experience.

@t1nick My experience goes way back, and I can assure you that things are better. Also, I’ve lived in other parts of the country, and I’ve seen racism everywhere.There are plenty of professional studies that rate living conditions for Blacks in various places. Here’s a recent one:

[worldpopulationreview.com]

Racism is not something off in some other place that needs to be attacked and destroyed through demonization and hostility. As I said before, racism is a personal fear problem that is part of the human condition, and that condition is world-wide.Those Native Americans that you mentioned, the various tribes and nations were at constant war. It’s the same everywhere more or less, and it’s always been that way.

If it were just a problem with our system it would be easy to fix, but as a personal fear problem the fix is only with each individual, and that includes you and me. You are wasting time and energy with your ranting about the South.

I recommend the reading of MLK’s essays. I recently posted one of his best.

[agnostic.com]

@WilliamFleming

Yes racism exist all over, but the only racism that is relevant right now to us is what is happening in our country. I have worked the South, done graduate work in the North, and taught in marginalized communities and populations for 32 years. My experience is not insubstantial either. I have seen how institutionalized racism impacts a marginalized population firsthand for 32 years. Not from the eyes on the mainstream white privileged class, but from their eyes. I have seen the historic scars and the historic trauma that has altered their culture to the point that what should be strength is now impotent to address their ills.

@t1nick Do you have a proposal for improving that situation?

@WilliamFleming

Begin with an honest discussion of racism in all its manifestations. In that discussion talk about the real history of this country ( you really should read Howard Zinn) , not the textbooks used in a high school history class.

Televise the discussions. Make sure there are prominent politicians, educators, business persons, religious leaders (unfortunately they need to be included) and civil rights activists Take the gloves off, but do it Docratoc style so no one person dominates.

Make it go one weeks, if not months. Many won't tune in, but the discussion that follows on the news and in peoples living rooms will more than suffice to ferret out the real truths and shed light on many factors previously hidden.

I real honest discussion about race relations, slavery, the War in the West, the field workers in California has never really been engaged in. We see an occasional movie, a PBS special, but of limited consumption. Bring it to the mainstream, in your face and long lasting. At least until the topic is finally exhaisted.

@t1nick What you suggest might have some positive influence. It would only affect people if they took it to heart. My opinion is that we should ditch history and get to know each other on a personal basis.

I was just reading about Howard Zinn. What a guy! I disagree with him on various issues, but basically I have a feeling that he was truly compassionate, intelligent and loving, and he was not filled with grievances, despite being somewhat of a revolutionary. I read a description of his The Southern Mystique and I suddenly remembered that I had read the book when it first came out. Those were dark days for some of us, and his nonjudgmental words were like balm to my psyche. This is from Wikipedia:

“In the case of the South, Zinn uses this framework to argue against an intrinsic, unassailable divide between black and white Southerners. Further, Zinn questions the idea that the racism in the North and South were unbridgeably different, arguing instead that the difference was in degree, rather than kind--the North was simply a little less racist. Finally, Zinn disposes of the question of whether differences between races were environmentally, biologically, or culturally produced. Zinn argues that the antidote to racism is "massive contact" between the black and white populations, far beyond anything that had occurred in the North.[1]

The Southern Mystique

Zinn proved to be correct in his analysis IMO. History need not rule us.

@WilliamFleming

History may not rule us, but it must be overcome. It has to be brought out of the closet and laid bare. You are right sbout one some taling the dialog to heart, but its saturation. The more its discussed the more it insinuates itself into regular conversation. After awhile the understanding and the way it becomes discussed actually changes the paradigm in all but the most ardent of racial persuasion. This only one suggestion, it will take more of course. But one has to start somewhere.

@t1nick I don’t know what you would do with that laid-bare history. History is over. For that matter I don’t know of any history that is being kept hidden. With television and the Internet you get all these historical perspectives from every angle all the time. Every bit of dirt that can be dug up has been exposed by zealous reformers, and so far as I can see that constant drumming has not brought one iota of racial harmony. If anything it’s just the opposite. It is actually creating extremism on both sides.

This reminds me of an NPR show I heard where a young Black woman from the South was being interviewed. The hostess was quizzing her about slavery, hoping to draw out anger or grievances. She said that she was grateful for slavery because otherwise she wouldn’t be here. The hostess abruptly cut her off and changed the subject, but I thought it was a very astute remark, reflecting courage and love.

We should simply forget all about history IMO—forget totally or ignore whatever racial differences there are and treat each other as divine gifts. Once the truth is known maybe reactionary white supremacy will melt away.

Maybe hatred toward the South will abate, but that would be a stretch. I doubt if those from the border states will ever manage that.

@WilliamFleming history is never over. One is deluded if they think one can separate oneself from ones history. It Carrie's implications, traumas, memories. It drives directions and how people develop.

The dialog I am talking about is not a one hour NPR or PBS production. In the wsy it comes out it is disjointed and never rises to the.level of a true dialog. Until an open no holds discussion on racism is enjoined in this nation, we will never be rid of it (as if racism would totally disappear). It has to be a purposeful discussion represented by a wide swath of personages participating.

As far as that women is concerned, her rationalization is definitely an exception and not the general rule. And the interviewer not cut her off, dhevmight have heard more about how that rationalization was part sarcasm (just speculating of course).

George Santayana. Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. ... George Santayana (16 December 1863 in Madrid, Spain – 26 September 1952 in Rome, Italy) was a philosopher, essayist, poet and novelist.

Winston Churchill
“He who forgets the past is doomed to repeat it.” “Those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it.

@WilliamFleming

In all fairness to the South, Wiiliam, the rest of the Nation has just as much to answer to along this topic. The North has more than its share of racism and discrimination against minorities. It may manifest itself diffetently in other areas, but it's there nonetheless.

The same goes for the Southwest and the far west. Sometimes it's not just blacks, but it can be Mexicans (Hispanics), or Asians in the NW. Racism in all its forms need airing and addressing. It's too easy to ignore or remain silent.

@t1nick Of course knowledge of history is important, but to make moral judgments about historical events is irrational and serves no purpose other than to stir up hatred. Events unfold for natural reasons, neither good nor evil. The aftermath is beneficial in some ways and harmful in others.

In my relationships with people I try to focus on the immediate presence and view historical events with dispassion.

@t1nick Sounds reasonable if once we admit and acknowledge “mistakes” we move on to the immediate present miraculous moment.

To see something as a mistake is not to make moral judgments about the people involved and it is CERTAINLY not to make moral judgments about descendants four or five generations down the line.

@WilliamFleming

Only so much as everbody recognizes that we are still being driven by what happened. Ackowledge its presence, then move on with a better understanding by everybody as to how not to allow it to continue