I have read about that group. Very interesting. They are definitely in an awkward position.

Former minister here. Well, youth minister for ten years and worship for fifteen. What do you mean by damage? And it's a pretty tough decision if you haven't been in that situation. I went to bible college and got a degree in ministry. After I left, it took five months to find a job and went through several interviews trying to translate my degree and ministry "skills" to the real world. Plus, ministry isn't just your job. It's your life. It's you sphere of friends and influence. It's not only your worldview, it's everyone else's around you.

@Ohioexpastor It’s a serious mistake that damages others as well, especially ‘youth.’ There is no way, in this day & age - with the access we have to knowledge, that anyone should follow such a path… And ‘the damage’ could very well have been planting a seed to do the same amid our youth.. It both chills and sickens me. Glad you escaped, but in my eyes, you’ve a lot to live down ~

@Varn a lot to live down? Wtf does that mean? Right my wrongs for honestly believing I was doing the right thing? Or should I spend time and money inventing a time machine to go back in time and make different choices?

@Ohioexpastor Some do prison time for far less damage.. It just puzzles and angers me beyond belief how anyone could not realize they were not only deluding themselves, but the innocent. Yes, this sounds harsh, perhaps it is, and I am relieved you’re no longer there, but I get the feeling you’ve walked away from a crime unscathed. Kinda like the murderer getting an early parole because he’s ‘found the lord.’ Again, glad you’re out, but those having done what you did are, to me, the worst of humanity

@Ohioexpastor ...feels as though I should attempt to better ‘flesh out’ my concerns here … as even I am puzzled and troubled by my responses.. though know they reflect that of an honest atheist, having been on the receiving end of a lifetime of religious persecution, with a leader of that persecution perhaps ‘just short’ of having recognized the depth of their damage.

To me, as these are my feelings, there are two kinds of religious: the true believers (W/ some in my extended family), which include those so truly stupid as to honestly believe the crap they’ve been fed; and those smart enough to know better, but finding the fruit of deception too rewarding to spit out. You strike me as the latter.

So why not welcome you, and the preacher having sparked this debate to ‘our/ my side’..? Because to do so feels like ignoring a wrong too serious to go ignored and unpunished. Yes, you claim to have ‘been punished by reality,’ in that adjusting to it has been costly and difficult. But would/ could the one-time Nazis of Nuremberg not have described that same? Should there not be a greater accountability for those having led the zellous charge of a wrong and destructive ideology?

Should you or the preacher in question be welcomed by his/ your victims without remorse or consequences beyond that of the personal difficulties of adjusting to their reality? From the perspective of the persecuted, unable to obtain elected public office due to the continued teachings and preaching of those like yourself (one example) - to the distrust and punishment of the intellectual honesty we represent by having promoted our alienation and exclusion from both family and community through social ostracization … how far up the command structure do we ignore?

There are certainly former deeply religious members of this community I’m happy to have … and just as these are my personal thoughts and feelings, maybe the problem lies with me? But in the realm of reality ‘sin’ does not evaporate as quickly as in the make believe world both you and the preacher in question once inhabited.. And if life’s become tougher for you - welcome aboard ~

@Varn I am sorry for the hurt that others have caused you, but honestly I don't think that justifies putting every pastor in the "worst people to have ever existed" category. It would be like denouncing every German as evil because of Hitler. I'm not one of those people that has to have everyone like me, though, so I wish you the best.

Then they’re both weak, and cowards.