That sounds wonderful. I wish we had a system like that. Our system is inherently divisive.

I don't know how to break the two party system, we certainly can't do it by working within the system. I think the only way would be for the working class to refuse cooperation until systemic change is made as the plebeians did.

@RoboGraham I think a good start would be to reinvigorate the Voting Rights act. Stop the Gerrymandering in the southern states where it seems to be most prevalent and make it easier to Vote. No 2 hour or more voting lines. Seems to be that the more working class and minority areas have the longest voting lines. That's not an accident, it's done on purpose in republican districts. Start by bringing back a functioning democracy. Take corporate funding out of the political system as well. 40% voting in the Presidential elections in the US is the lowest in the developed world. I think it's a combination of apathy and making it hard to vote. And another thing. Having a felony should not be a reason to have your voting rights taken away. Republicans know that you are more likely to be a felon if you are from a poor or disadvantages community and they want to undermine the voices from that community. And the democrats have to get back to ideas that REALLY help and represent challenged deprived communities. Since Bill Clinton the Democrats have watered down there policies on what is needed to represent the poor. The Dems have to get away form thinking that Free College and Free Healthcare are to far to the Left as an idea. Until you have FREE college and healthcare you will never give poor or disadvantages communities the opportunity to have a chance of improving their lives in a meaningful way.

@dermot235

I completely agree.

But how can we go about making those changes? We have been trying. But both parties refuse to support the initiatives that you mentioned. This is why I refuse to support them.

I think the only way is to force it upon them. They need us and if we would realize that we have strength in numbers, we could shut the system down until the authorities are forced to make concessions and give us a more fair system.

@RoboGraham If you want a chance of a start at some reform you will need to give the Democrats a HUGE majority in both the House and the Senate. Conservative Democrats have been a problem for decades now. And people should be out protesting about their votes been taken away. If you had Gerrymandering and Voter suppression in my country there would be Riots in the streets and rightly so. So yes I agree with you.

Civil Disobedience is required.

A general Strike would be a good idea.

If this does not happen you may be sleepwalking your way in to having no democracy at all.

@dermot235

Your people have seen true oppression in the recent past so it doesn't surprise me that they would be quick to fight back if it were to return. We in the states have grown comfortable with the idea that we are the nation of freedom. Most of us believe it whether it's true or not.

A general strike is essential. I think it is the only way to get their attention and force them into compliance because profit is the language that they understand. Hit them where it hurts and they will come around. We need more people to understand that and get angry enough to do it. Perhaps this pandemic and Trump will motivate them to stand up for themselves.

I've got a question for you. I haven't heard much about Brexit recently. Is that still going on and if so, will you Irish take back the Northern end of your Island?

@RoboGraham It will go ahead and the UK will be shooting itself in the foot. Trade with Europe represents 40% of the UK economy. But because the EU is 27 member states, UK trade for the rest of Europe is only 7% of their Trade. To Hear the UK speak you would think they had a big advantage over the EU. The UK are in for a horrible economic Shock when they leave the EU. They Will probably accept this shock because the reason they left was purely racist. They hate immigrants. They are a very racist nation.

As for the North of Ireland. No we will not take it back and most people in the South do not want it back. The South has become a very Liberal country over the last 20 years. And the North is still infected with the Virus of religious bigotry. The UK can keep it now. When the UK wanted to keep it we wanted it back. Now the UK would gladly hand it back, but we don't want it back. It an economic basket case with huge subsidies from the UK to keep it's economy afloat. The South has no interest in the financial cost of the North. It would bankrupt the south if unity happened.

Your point about
"Your people have seen true oppression in the recent past so it doesn't surprise me that they would be quick to fight back if it were to return."
is very relevant.
With our republic only being 100 years old and the rest of Europe having suffered the scourge of Fascism 70 years ago, this has meant that in Europe we value our democracy in a way that makes us defend it very strongly. I can't remember a year that went by in the recent past where street protests and a general Strike has not been use in one or more european countries to get their voice heard. The French make a past time of going on strike to get what they want.

There is a joke about the french that goes as follows

It relates to the 2 cow economic model. A model used to explain an economic systems.

So Model One.
The communist 2 Cow economic Model.
You have 2 cows and your neighbour has no cows so you give your neighbour 1 cow. Now everyone has 1 cow.

Model two
The Capitalist 2 cow economic Model
You have 2 cows. You sell one, Buy a bull and breed a 100 cows. Then sell the 100 cows and retire.

Model 3
The French economic model.
You have 2 cows. This is not acceptable. So you go on Strike until you get 3 cows

@dermot235

Sounds like people in the UK are pretty similar to people here in the US. Willing to fuck themselves over for hate of the outsiders.

I'm surprised to hear that people in the south don't want the north back. I know there is a lot of bad blood there but I had thought that they wanted to reunite the Island out of national pride. I didn't realize the north was so economically and socially backward. I guess the UK will be stuck with it, serves them right the way they have treated the Irish over the centuries. So will there be a hard boarder there after the UK exits the union?

I've heard that the Frenchies are very quick to strike. Sounds like a good thing to me. They and Europeans generally get a much better deal for the labor force. Here in the states, most of us have to work long hours and go deep into debt just to get by. Many have to get second and third jobs, both parents in a household have to get into the workplace usually, and we get much less leave and vacation time. And for all that hard work and dedication, we don't even get adequate heathcare. I bet a lot of the Irish who immigrated here are wishing they had stayed. My grandmother came from Germany and she regrets it every day.

That's a pretty good joke.

@RoboGraham The peace process in the North was pretty successful. Power sharing between the 2 communities now. And they got rid of gerrymandering years ago. An accommodation between to opposing sides is what you could call it. And it seems to be working well. The Terrorist war is over now. Younger people in the North are less likely to be divided by politics or religion now. So hopefully that will change things for the better. It may take another 2 generations to get that one done. The norths economy is basically 70% public services and Government Jobs. With out that there would probably be unemployment of over 25%. Wages in the North are about 30% lower than in the south. The norths economy has improved since the peace deal was implemented. As for a hard border. A deal was done to prevent that, but then the UK started to negotiate with the EU for the day they exit, and it's not going well. The UK want to get access to the EU market (A single free trade zone of 500 million people) but they don't want to obey the rules of the EU market. They want it both ways. And the EU is telling them they can't have it both way. And all the rules the EU impose are what they object to. The rules of the EU FREE Trade areas are there to protect workers rights. Something the UK are not comfortable with, especially conservatives who resent them.
The purpose of the EU rules are that no one country can trade unfairly with the other countries by undercutting costs by taking advantage of it's workforce to gain a competitive advantage.
So here are some examples of EU regulations you have to abide by to get in to the "Single Market"

1. The work time directive.
   No employer can ask a worker to work more than 48 hours per week. And you can't get around this by having 2 jobs. Your work time has to stay under 48 hours a week. (The 48 hours can be an average hours per week over 13 weeks, so if you work 50 hours then you have to restrict yourself to 46 hours on another week). Most people in Europe work a 37 hour week with some workers in Germany and France doing only 32 hours and still get paid well. You can work more than this if you are management or a business owner. But if a business owner breaks these regulations in relation to there employees they can be fined by government. And the fines can be quite large.
2. Minimum Wage.
   All countries in the EU must have a minimum wage and have to pay ABOVE Minimum wage for Shift Work and Saturday or Sunday Work or work outside of normal 9 to 5 working hours.
3. Vacation Time.
   A minimum of 4 weeks paid leave must be given in each member EU country. Some countries give 5 weeks or 6 weeks. And this does not include Public holidays. So for example, in Ireland there is a minimum of 4 weeks Vacation leave per year and then we get 11 public holidays. If one of our public holiday falls on a Saturday or a Sunday then we get a day of during the week to make up for this.
4. Trade Union Membership.
   All workers in the EU have the legal right to join a Trade union, and if they are sacked for doing this the company is fined 2 years wages for the worker they sack and this fine is given to the Worker they sacked.
5. If a worker is let go because a company is in Difficulty and they have to let staff go, the staff get 2 weeks wages for every year they worked at this company. So if you work for a company for 20 years you get 40 weeks wages when you are let go.
6. Once you have worked for any company for over 1 year and a day you get a set of rights as a worker in Europe. Rights include compensation for unfair sackings decided by a court. The use of this court is FREE for all workers. No legal fees apply. The same is true for the Employer who can make their case to at theses courts. And if you sack a woman while pregnant you will find yourself giving her 2 years salary if the court finds you to be in the wrong.
   There are lots more of these rules.

Thanks, I'm glad it was meaningful to you