As an ex teacher of ALL abilities including trying to teach my stupid self , I would say that the stupids are the ones that need the listening (and doing something about it) MOST

@Mcflewster l don't remember who said, "Smart people know they don't know everything and stupid people think they know everything". I love that quote.

@AnneWimsey "Great Job "At.....???? It is not enlightenment until you give full reasons and details of both sides and then decide your own view.

I read an article today about a citizen of India who was a very big fan of Trump. I never realized there was an international following as well. It would be interesting to learn more on that topic. I know nothing about the internal politics of India, so I can make no comment in that regard.

@AW, even though he is the stupidest person to ever draw a breath

@Flowerwall Please do not put a block on the understanding of people . I having emigrated at 24yrs am still trying to understand what I got from the people of my homeland.

@freeofgod, @Mcflewster duhhhh, sarcasm pointing out the massive generalization of this post is just silly

@AnneWimsey Sorry, but what is the massive generalisation you refer to?

@Mcflewster The block? Me wanting to understand the position of those that support Trump in India, can in no way be construed as a block. In fact the individual I read about was so staunchly in support he had constructed a 6 ft statue of Trump and prayed to him. There must be some extremely intense feelings there, obviously. And those feelings are not unique to him as I understand. India is comprised of nine major religions and the current PM has aided the protections of the various faiths. Trump has a positive relationship with PM and has built growing support among Indian Americans, who are traditionally more in favor of Democrats. Now this may not be exactly what Dems want to hear, but it's just what it is. One part. And I also feel I should restate the fact that I do not have an indepth knowledge of internal politics of India. I know religious conflict can be hugely devastating in parts of the world and I personally think ppl should aim to get along.

Yes, wanting to understand people is natural, I mean regarding your emigration. Keep working at it if it's important to you.

I don't know who the person above is in the picture. I probably miss context and references others already get. That's fine with me. Have a good day!

@Flowerwall that we need to carefully consider all other statements.....so I made one to disprove all that woo in the post!

@AnneWimsey , the "AW" was meant to 'fake sympathy' for the orange asshole

@Flowerwall Sorry if I have taken the wrong line. What the chap who built the statue was wrong as is all worship of an individual . The politics of every country is difficult . This is why it is vital to inject a very large portion of science activity so that it can be understood . The statue was of course to the god of BIG untruthful and uncommunicative business interests.

@Mcflewster I would never make a general assumption someone's religious beliefs are wrong for them. Maybe the Trump statue worship was exactly what he needed. Was it relating back to big biz interests or more relating to a desire for peace in his nation? I don't know exactly because I haven't researched it. I do know the nation of India needs peace in that regard. Every nation does. Additionally, we shouldn't attempt to infringe our ideas on others. Science only goes so far. I do agree applying science can be highly useful, but should a society ever tell citizens they are unable to build statues of others and worship? I would think, no, never, as it opposes freedom of relgion.

@Flowerwall I am going to close on this from my end because the ideas are getting too mixed up but it is my fault for "going down the wrong track". However I am sad that you think science is limited.

@freeofgod needs more "w"s

@Mcflewster Science does have it's limits! Can we agree on that? Just look at covid response. It's 2020 and there is often flip flopping on the recommendations. On the whole it's trustworthy, but never perfect. And let's not forget this man's effigy was not the first or last. There was the big balloon flown in UK, and I'm sure, many, many more. Though UKs balloon was not meant for worship or to be complimentary.

@Flowerwall I just haven't got round to asking all the questions yet . Yes that is a limitation but it was never meant to answer them all at once. It is a set of processes for your guidance and co-operative convenience. Meaning that if you follow the accepted, tested and tried procedures with all the checks and balances it could, given time, get you closer to the truth. Therefore IMO there is no need to think of it having limitations. Yes there is uncertainty about the length of time it will take to progress your understanding but humanity has all the time in the world unless it runs out of ingenuity. This is my current view and that of course may change, even when I get your reply.

@Mcflewster The Qs in science will never be fully solved. And humans will never run out of ingenuity, though we may die out as a species at some point. Science can help us solve many problems, yes. But science also cannot erase human elements such as wanting to pray and religious belief. Life is not just some great big empty scientific process afterall, well not in my mind and not in minds of most ppl on this planet.

@Mcflewster Some of the religious beliefs in India are very interesting too; they can encapsulate some essence that science never will.

@Flowerwall what is an essence? To me it is something you can squeeze out of a flower, but are you thinking it is more like a soul? . I agree that India is very way back in its treatment of religions. It is multi god of course but hint a very respected religion.

@Mcflewster I don't know. You are trying to start scientific inquiry. You will not get it through that process. Way back? I don't know. It's just different. Religion goes way back. Even when societies try to eliminate it, it can't be erased. It is so often cause for strife. I think there is a branch of psychology dedicated to that study, that seems to validate the human need for religion. Anyway, that's just science too. I mean outside of science.

@Flowerwall I know I am trying something different. I know I have chosen a very difficult subject for those who cannot see that science has helped to decrease the power of religion. It can continue to do so.
I really do not want to do anything that would put people off science or drive way people from the truths that this website has already established. Have you any positive advice?

@Mcflewster Science is an extremely useful tool. Any time you use electronics or take medication or use any other item/concept derived from science your actions are validating that truth. But science isn't everything and don't expect it to be. I will agree with a large part of the science part myself, but I'm not fooled by it either. I think that would be considered mainly positive in your estimation.

This is grown into a lengthy back and forth post. I don't think there is any more to say. I'm not an atheist, btw. But I am prone to tangents at time.

@Mcflewster The response I last left, left out a huge amount. It was rushed and this is too. The main point is - Yes, science can help a tremendous amount in solving world problems. That is true. How much of that needs to happen through increasing belief in scientific principles and lessening religious belief is not something I feel I know at this point. I think it's best to stick with the educational/helpful aspects and let others find their own way.

@Flowerwall I am all for letting others find their own way. However it is dangereous to let people do that completely on their own even if they are not blind. I am trying to introduce a safe simplified (but not dumb) way of explaining how science can help everyone reach principles for themselves not just facts and problem solutions. Neither will this method actually tell you what to do. It follows from my experiences in Science teaching which taught me that most people know how to find answers - often painfully but do not have the confidence. Thanks for the discussion. Apologies for any of my assumptions and surmising that does not fit facts about you.