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How far do you think choice goes?

My personal belief is that with the exception of a situation where someone is holding a gun to your head, EVERY decision we make boils down to a personal choice. Implying there are no instincts or "in-born" drives that override choice. Agree? or not?

pilotlight11 5 Nov 27
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A question was put to me once about choices and I would like to hear what you think. If you had two different children and raised them under the exact same conditions, they had the same experiences, education ...etc do you think they would make the same choices in life? The point they stressed was that everything had to be EXACTLY the same throughout there life. Is the human mind a computer waiting to programmed by its experiences or is the mind born with a few choices built in? What's your thoughts?

Your question reminds me of the two main things I learned in 9 years of grad school: data are plural and when presented with an either/or question the answer is always "both". Like a computer we are ruled governed. Unlike a computer, we make our own rules. The rules develop, change, get modified through out our life, but they are always there, governing how we behave. But, we have some rules that are so powerful (built in as you say) - survival and procreation come to mind, that to chose against those rules is nearly impossible unless circumstances dictate that choosing to ignore the rule is a personal better path. But, in the end it is still a choice.

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Having lived a long time I just reviewed some of the decisions I have made and I fine that instincts, personal drives, gut feelings,past behavior,settings,my views on life all plus many othersl influence my decisions. For example , my past training would make me make a very different decision if confronted by a terrorist than someone who has not had this training. One basis their decisions upon their experiences in life.

Agree- many things INFLUENCE the decisions we make, but the CHOICE is still ours. And, while not 78, I'll see you 69 and raise the difference.

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I want to agree but can't. I think childhood programming is a very hard thing to overcome. Most people like us have overcome a good many of these programmings, but I think that our perceptions of the world are molded at a very young age. An Evangelical would be a completely different person, making completely different choices, if that person were born inside of a different country, religion, heritage, ect. So while I think your question is a good one, I have to disagree for now.

But you still said it would be a choice - just a different choice. Until someone or something outside you controls your thinking your behaviors are under your control. If you choose to listen to the programming of your youth - so be it - still a choice.

I have broken free of the constraints of my childhood programming, just empathizing with those that haven't.

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I disagree, but I am not in disagreement 100%.

I think as animals we do have insincts, which are expressed or felt as emotions.

Although humans are capable of rational thought, I seriously doubt that anyone (meaning the number is so small , we will just acknowledge there ae some, but too few to consider when generalizing) is so vigilant about thinking, that they never go on "automatic pilot" and actually consider each action or decision carefully before taking action. In those moments when we are not specifically focused I believe instinct and emotions can kick in and determine actions.

This is best demonstrted when presented with dangers. But we will simplify the danger down to just tripping and falling. You dont' think to put your hands out to catch you, but without thinking that is what you do. That is an instinct kicking in to keep you from getting hurt. Ther eare many more complex sce3nerios, with much more complicated explanations, but why ge complicated when the point can be shown with a simple exmple.

Learning and practice can ehjance our ability to react. For instance military training or martial arts training will teach you to reapond automatically without thinking to threats which may harm you. But again when the reaction comes it si without conscious thought.

When there is plenty of time to think and consider, then yes a person will consciously make a decision. However, when the information needed to make a decision is incomplete and yet a decision still has to be made, is it instinct or just a best guess?

The issue of sex. makes things very complicated. As animals, humans are not naturally monogamous, yet modern culture makes that expectation of us. Persons who "cheat" know what they are doing, yes, and they often feel it is wrong, but they do it anyways. Why? Because the sexual drive and instinct to reproduce can over ruled their rational thinking process, even though they feel that they are making a poor decision.

Because of the above, I think honesty in a relationship is far more important than monogamy. Monogamy may be a worthy goal for a coupel to try to achieve, but about two thirds of peopel are not monogamous (probably more than that, as those are the ones who have admitted to it).

So, although conscious thought has a gerat deal to do with how well a person confroms to their own idea of beign a "good person", instinctual drives in humans, which are animals after all, still have a great deal of influence over our behavior(s).

If out instincts were not "hard wired" into us, humans as a species would nto have survived and have been as successful as we have become. Settling in cities an developing modern culture does not just turn those insincts off. They are still with us and still influence us. Although, because humans often see themselves as separte and above other animals, we, as humans, often give ourselves far more credit in terms of beign superior than we really deserve.

For all the technology we have deevloped, most of it, has been a byproduct and came out of research done to develop better weapons systems in order to kill more of each other more efficiently and quicker than ever before. How intelligent is that really? We are nto as far above the animals as we would like to think we are.

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I agree 100 percent. Every decision is a personal choice. Even when there is a gun to your head.

I did forget one area of non-choice - medical. One probably has no choice but to succumb to a stoke or seizure.

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The first thing that comes to mind with me is the instinctual bond between a mother and her offspring.
This can be seen not only in humans but throughout the natural world.

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Of course, instincts and internalized cultural norms and belief patterns influence. But, we always need to try to be aware of those and their effects when we do choose or act.

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i think most of the time, you're right. sometimes, though, a person can lose control of their actions and thoughts. now, sometimes, THAT is the result of personal choices, but choices made in those conditions aren't really under control like normal. not saying it's a viable excuse, but the shit happens.

I would agree if the "loss of control" was not the result of a personal decision. Drunk = choice, Medical issue probably not choice.

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